Catholic Faith Defenders Vs. Iglesia ni Cristo Debate
Posted by catholicfaithdefender on July 30, 2008
Catholic Faith Defenders Journal (January 1982) Page 32
(By: G-one Paisones CFD member)
Catholic Faith Defenders of the Philippines Inc.
Dipolog Chapter Dipolog City
Views and Comments on the CFD Public Debate with
The Iglesia ni Cristo and Rally at the ZN Cultural and
Sports Center, Dipolog City on December 12-13, 1981
Tema sa Debate
- Pamatud-an ko nga ang Iglesia ni Cristo nga giwale ug giparehistro ni Igsuon Felix Manalo sa tuig 1914 maoy matuod nga Iglesia nga gitukod ni Kristo ug pagaluwason sa adlaw sa paghukom sumala sa Biblia ug mga referencia.
(TAGALOG: Patutunayan ko na ang Iglesia ni Cristo na pinahayag (Preached) at pinarehistro (Registered) ni kapatid Felix Manalo sa taong 1914 ang tunay na Iglesiang itinatag ni Cristo at ang ililigtas sa araw ng paghahatol ayon sa Biblia at mga referencia.)
2.Pamatud-an ko nga ang Santo Papa sa Roma mao ang mapintas nga mananap nga nagdala sa numero 666 sumala sa Biblia ug mga standard nga referencia.
(TAGALOG: Patutunayan ko na ang Santo Papa sa Roma ay ang mabangis na hayop na nagdadala ng numerong 666 ayon sa Biblia at mga standard na referencia.)
Affirmative Side
Iglesia ni Cristo Team
1. Bro. Mateo Liwanag
2. Bro. Avelino Tongol
3. Bro. Avelino Mosquida
4. Bro. Felizardo Pama
5. (Anonymous)
Negative Side
Catholic Faith Defenders Team
1. Bro. Socrates Fernandez
2. Bro. Marcelo Bacalso
3. Bro. Teofilo Tumulak
4. Bro. Alfonso Resuento
5. Bro. Luis Baquirquir
MODERATOR
Atty. Josie Sar. Pacatang
Atty. Senen O. Angeles
(With tagalog translation)
Sa Sinugdanan sa Lantugi, nagtuo ang mga Catholic Faith Defenders nga by team ang paagi sa lantugi. Apan human sa unang stand sa Division Minister sa Iglesia ni Cristo- Mateo Liwanag, mipasiatab nga sa ikaduhang barog siya lang gihapon ang mosulti ug pakamangon kuno niya ang lima ka sakop sa Catholic Faith Defenders Team. Tungod niini, nakahukom ang mga Catholic Faith Defenders nga dili nalang usab ilisan si Bro. Atty Marcelo Bacalso sanglit man usab ang speaker sa Catholic Faith Defenders aron dili makaingon ang mga tawo nga gitabangan ang Ministro sa INC. Laktud nga pagkasulti, si Bro. Atty Bacalso ug si Bro. Mateo Liwanag lamang ang mga speaker hangtud natapus ang lantugi.
(TAGALOG: Sa panimula sa debate, naniwala ang mga Catholic Faith Defenders na by team ang debate. Pero pagkatapos sa unang tindig ng Division Minister ng INC-Mateo Liwanag, nangungutyang nasabing s’ya parin ang titindig sa ikalawang tindigan (stand) at pagagapangin daw nya ang limang kasapi ng Catholic Faith Defenders Team. Dahil dito, naka-deklara ang mga Catholic Faith Defenders na hindi nalang nila papalitan si Bro. Atty. Bacalso sapagkat sya ang naunang speaker sa panig ng Catholic Faith Defenders team para hindi makapagsabi ang mga tao na pinagtulungan ang ministro ng Iglesia ni Cristo. Sa madaling salita, si Bro. Atty. Bacalso at si Bro. Mateo Liwanag lamang ang mga speaker hanggang sa matapos ang debate.)
Aron gayod sa paghatag ng katin-awan sa atong mga kaigso-onan nga wala makasaksi sa maong lantugi among gipanlimbasogan pagpatik dinhi ang resulta kon nahimong sangputanan pinaagi sa nahipos nga mga pahayag kun komentaryo sa pipila ka mag tawo nga dili Katoliko aron maoy mohukom sa walay pagdapig sa usag-usa:
(TAGALOG: Para mabigyan ng malinaw na impormasyon ang ating mga kapatid na hindi naka saksi sa naturang debate aming pinag tyagaan ang pagsulat ditto sa resulta sapamamagitan ng pagkuha ng pahayag at komentaryo sa mga kapatid nating hindi Katoliko para huhusga ng walang kinakampihan sa bawat isa:)
EULOGIO BUSCA (United Church of Christ in the Philippines) – Dipolog City
“Una ko kadtong higayon nga nakadungog ug naka saksi nga ang mga Katoliko nanalipod pinaagi sa usa ka Formal Public Debate dinhi sa tibuok Mindanao ug nakadayeg ako sa mga Catholic Faith Defenders. Sa maong lantugi gisaksihan sa tulo ngadto sa upat ka libo ka mga tawo nga nagkalain-lain ang tinuhoan, ako moingon sa walay lipod-lipod sanglit dili man ako Katoliko nga ang Division Minister sa Iglesia ni Cristo nga si Mateo Liwanag wala gayud makapabarug ni makapamatuod sa duha ka tema nga gilantugian human dugmoka sa Catholic Faith Defenders ang iyang tanang argumento pinaagi sa mga kasaligan nga referencia nga gigamit ni Atty. Marcelo Bacalso.”
“Sa laing bahin, nakadayig usab ako sa kabugnaw ug tinaw nga manubag ni Bro. Socrates Fernadez sa mga pangutana nga gipasupot sa mga Sabadista sa panahon sa ilang rally. Akong namatikdan usab nga wala nay laing Iglesia ni Cristo nga mibalik aron sa pagpakita sa mga Katoliko human watas-watasa ang ilang banggiitang debater nga si Mateo Liwanag.”
(TAGALOG: Una palang akong nakarinig at naka saksi na ang mga Katoliko ay nag dedepensa sa pamamagitan ng isang Formal Public Debate dito sa buong pulo ng Mindanao at ako ay humanga sa Catholic Faith Defenders. Sa naturang debate nasaksihan sa tatlo hanggang apat na libong taong may ibat-ibang relihiyon o pananampalataya; ako ay nagsasabi na walang pinapanigan sapagkat hindi ako Katoliko na ang Division Minister ng Iglesia ni Cristo na si Mateo Liwanag hindi naka tindig o naka patunay sa dalawang tema ng debate pagkatapos nailampaso (Totally destroyed) ng Catholic Faith Defender ang lahat ng mga argumento(ni Mateo Liwanag) sapapagitan ng mga mapagkakatiwalaang referencia na ginamit ni Atty. Marcelo Bacalso.”
“Sa ibang banda, humanga ako sa magandang at malinaw na pagsagot ni Brad. Socrates Fernandez sa mga tanong sa kanya ng mga Sabadista sa panahon sa kanilang (CFD) rally. Napansin ko din na wala ng Iglesia ni Cristo na bumalik para pagpakita sa mga Katoliko pagkatapos ilampaso ang kanilang pinakamagaling na debater nasi Mateo Liwanag.”)
EMILIO BENGUA (Sabadista) Dipolog City (Was aired in DXDR sa kanilang programa 12/20/81)
“Nakadayeg ako sa kaligdong ug kabugnaw nga manubag ni Brad Soc Fernandez sa dihang ako nangutana sa ilang public rally niadtong December 13, 1981 didto sa ZN Cultural and Sports Center.
(TAGALOG: Humanga ako sa tama at totohanang pag sagot ni Brad Soc Fernandez ng akoy nag tanong sa kanya sa kanilang public rally noong December 13, 1981 doon sa ZN Cultural and Sports Center.”)
Catholic Faith Defender 
prince said
more power sa mga dumidipensa sa pananampalatayang katoliko ang inc ay isang hipokrito
bats said
tama.
Nino Joaquin V. Eugenio said
Thank sa CFD for enlightening me on topics that my bestfriend ( who belongs to the INC ) regularly debate about, and for answering questions about our religion that i ask myself. This is Nino, born a Catholic, would die as a Catholic .
jonard said
do you think you can convinced people in that manner? very bad!
catholicfaithdefender said
jonard
Bro jonard alam mo hindi kami nangungumbinsi; inilalathala lang namin kung ano ang totoo..
Kung gusto mo sa maginoong usapan mag dedebate tayo eh..
Wala po kaming kinukombensi, hindi kaya ng mga iba jan…
Regards,
Philans57CFD
reymark said
opo! 220 yun hindi kami nangungumbinsi! hindi nangungumbinsi ang KATOLIKO. nasubukan nyo na po bang pumasok sa simbahan ng KATOLIKO?
pag pumasok kayo sa KATOLIKO wala kayong maririnig na parinig against other RELIGION. marunong ba kayo makisama sa ibang RELIGION? pag tumulong ang KATOLIKO wagas. hindi NANININGIL ng UTANG na LOOB.
H I N D I N A N G U N G U M B I N S I A N G K A T O L I K O!!!!!!!!!!
catholicfaithdefender said
Prince,
Bro salamat sa comento mo..
More power rin sayo…
jenny said
excuse me..tanong ko lang sa mga CATHOLIC mayroon bng nakasulat sa bible na IGLESIA KATOLIKA APOSTOLIKA ROMANA??if meron den i will convert to your religion, tska patunayan nyong hindi bawal kumain ng dugo,hindi bawal ang pagsamba sa mga diyos diyosan,bawal na pag aasawa ng pari, hindi bawal ang fiesta,,,and for the information of all,kea lang naman po kayo nang uusig is that nabubulgar na ang mga maling aral niyo,,and thank God,,kasi tama ang nakasulat sa bible,na kung pinag uusig ang panginoong Hesukristo kami man din,,so,makinig muna kayo ng totoong aral bago kayo mang usig,,kayo din!!!para sa kaalaman din ng iba wala kaming nilalabag sa mga utos ng Diyos,,if meron po kayong mapatunayan na meron kameng nilalabag den ipagsigawan niyo sa buong madla,,but for sure wala naman kayong mapapatunayan..dats ol..hope na magliwanag ang inyong nabubulagang puso..
Defend the catholic faith said
Kung pinaguusig man si cristo, maging ang simbahang kanyang intinatag ay inuusig din ng mga bullang mga proopeta at mga mensaherong hindi maktiotoo…. wala naman po kaong pinapanigan, pero kung gusto mong magtanong lahat ng tanong mo AY AKING SASDAGUTIN………………….. isa akong katoliko at iginagalang ko ang relibhiyon ng bawat isa,… pero sa maga nabasa ko sa iyo…… hindi naman na makatuwiranm naq siraan mko ang lahat ng mga kaoliko……………..
i-email mo ang lahat ng iyong mga katanungan at ang lahatr ng iyan ay lakas loob kong sdasagutin…………… sangayon.. puro galit ang nasa puso mo para sa BANAL NA ROMANA KATOLIKA TA APOSTOLIKONG SIMBAHAN…..
isang sagot……… wala sa biblia ang salitang “
rain said
ito po ang mga katanungan ko sa iyo.si cristo ba at ang Diyos ay iisa?nakasulat ba sa banalna kasulatan na pinag babawal ang pagkain ng dugo?kung hindi ang sagot mo pakibasa na lang sa gawa:21:25 patunayan mo na kayo ang tunay na mga alagad ng Diyos.kung bakit
catholicfaithdefender said
Eh…. kung mababasa ko sa Biblia na Si Cristo ay Dios… aaminin mo bang mali ka!!!!!!!!!
rain said
bakit hindi? basta patunayan mo nang malinaw na malinaw…………pwede hihingi ng bersekulo na galing sa banal na kasulatan na nagpapatunay na na si cristo at ang Diyos ay iisa………
pams said
do you no believe that i and the father are one? john10:30,the word(referring to Jesus Christ himself) was made flesh and lived among us and we have seen his glory, the glory as of the father’s only son full of grace AND TRUTH.
Matthew said
INC has been doing things not in the right way of preaching the Gospel. You could defend your learnings about the Bible against the Catholic Church, but then, let me clarify again that your so-called Church was not built by Christ Himself but by just and perhaps ordinary person. The Catholic Church is the one true Church, that was built by Chirst, and it was given to St. Peter, the first pope, referred to be the “Stone”, which can’t be destroyed until the end of time. By what i have read in your beliefs, they have proved themselves to be in falsification. Please be reminded of your denial of the divinity of Jesus Christ. May God bless you!
Defend the catholic faith said
Kung pinaguusig man si cristo, maging ang simbahang kanyang intinatag ay inuusig din ng mga bulaang mga proopeta at mga mensaherong hindi makatotohanan….kung gusto mong magtanong, lahat ng tanong mo AY AKING SASAGUTIN………………….. isa akong katoliko at iginagalang ko ang relibhiyon ng bawat isa,… pero sa mga nabasa ko sa iyo…… hindi naman na makatuwiranm na siraan mo ang lahat ng mga katoliko……………..
i-email mo ang lahat ng iyong mga katanungan at ang lahat ng iyan ay lakas loob kong sasagutin…………… sa ngayon.. puro galit ang nasa puso mo para sa BANAL NA ROMANA KATOLIKA AT APOSTOLIKONG SIMBAHAN…..
isang sagot……… wala sa biblia ang salitang”IGLESI NI CRISTO” mga maling salin ang ipinakalat ng mga tao… dahil ang salita na para sa cristo na griego na “cristo” ay hindi lumitaw sa pangungusap na “alagaan ninyo ang iglesi ni cristo” bagkus ang salitang “theon” ang tunay na lumabas na nangangahulugan na “Diyos” KAYA ANG TAMANG PANGUNGUSAP AY “iglesia ng Diyos”
kung mapupunta sa impeyrno ang mga hindi nabinyagan sa INC…. ano ang nangyari sa mga magulang ni Felix? hindi ba sila naligtas? at maging si Felix ay hindi nabinyagan ng sarili niyang sekta… kung totoo ang lahat ng kanyang mga sinsabi… sino ang unang mapupunta sa impeyrno??? ang isyu ng dugo? trinidad? lahat ay aking sasagutin sa saligan ng biblia, banal na taradisyon at ng simbahang katoliko….
sabihin mo sa mga kaibigan mo na itanong na ang lahat ng tanong, pero tuparin mo ang iyong ipinangako na kung mapapatunayan ko… ehhh… magpapaconvert ka sa IGLESYA ROMANA KATOLIKA….
ang mga sinabi ko ay pahapyaw lamang…………
rain said
marunong ba kayong bumasa?pakibasa nga ng roma:16:16………….kung pwede
catholicfaithdefender said
Eh,,, paano kung mapapatunayan ko na ang Roma 16:16 ay ang Iglesia Catolica o Ecclesia Uneversa…… aamenin mo bang mali ka!!!!1
pams said
pakibasa rin po at pakiunawa ang john 10:30 at 1:14
Catholic Faith said
….
rain said
malaking kalukuhan ……….patunayan mo huwag mong sabihin ,,,,puro kayo salita ni hindi n’yo kailanman pinapatunayan…….
chris said
o ito po jenny para sa tanong nyo. kahit tingnan pa sa lahat ng dictionary ang pangalang katoiliko ay uneversal bakit? dahil ito ay galing sa greek word nas kata at holos na ang ibig sabihin ay ipinahayag sa at buo, thus, it means that it was proclaimed in the whole world at wala ito sa biblia dahil ayon kay juan hindi lahat ng ginawan ni kristo nong dito pa sya lupa ay nakasulat sa biblia at isa pa ang pangalang biblia mismo ay hindi mo makikita simula genisis hanggang revelation pero aang ibig sabihin parin nito ay universal kahit titingnan mo pa a dictionary.hence, partner na partner ang dalawa diba at bagay na bagay dahil parehong parehoj ang ibig sabihin “UNIVERSAL” THAT IS WHY the catholic church has written tradition(bibilia) at holy tradition(religion).
catholicfaithdefender said
Salamat bro
catholicfaithdefender said
Dear Jenny,
Sa hindi pa natin sasagutin ang tanong mo ay dapat nating malaman na si Cristo lang ang nagtatag ng Kanyang iglisya (Mat. 16:18); itoy naitatag N’ya sa kanyang kapanahonan ( Mat. 18:17); itoy Kanyang katawan (Col.1:18); Sya ang manliligtas ng iglisya (Efe 5:23); ito’y itinayo nya sa saligan ng mga apostol (Efe 2:20); itoy sasamahan Nya hanggang sa katapusan ng sanlibutan (Mat. 28:20) at bibigyan Nya ito ng patnubay(Juan. 14:16-17) at ang patnubay, ang Espiritu Santo na magtuturo sa iglisya ng lahat ng bagay at magpapaalala ng lahat ng sinabi ni Cristo (Juan. 14:26)
Ang tunay na iglisyang itinatag ni Cristo ay magpasahanggang sa ngayon ay narito pa at hindi ito kalian man tatalikod at mawawalang parang bula (Mat. 16:18) (Mat. 28:20) (Juan. 14:16-17,26)
Sa kapanahunan natin ngayon may mahigit na sa 33000 kristianong denomenasyon (sekta); at lahat nag-aangkin na sila raw ang totoong iglisyang itinatag ni Cristo. Sa 33000 sekta isa lang ang tunay na iglisiang Itinatag ni Cristo. Ang tunay na iglesya:
-Si Cristo ang nagtatag
-Naitatag ni Cristo ang kanyang iglisya sa kanyang kapanahonan
-Hindi ito madadaig ng Kamatayan
-Sa mga panahon ng mga Apostol hanggang sa ngayon ay existed itong Kanyang iglesya
-Ang iglisyang ito ay can trace back its origin to the apostles.
Ang iglisyang that can trace back its origin to the apostles ay ang Roman Catholic Church (Pasugo Magazine –April 1965- page 41) (The World book Encyclopedia-1986 page 580) (The World Alamanac & Book of Facts-1966 page 501).
Ang Pasugo pa mismo ang nag patunay na ang Roman Catholic Church ay ang isa at tanging makapagpabalik ng dugtong nito sa mga apostol. Narito ang kanilang pahayag “So we don’t question the claim of the Catholic Apologist, that the Catholic Church alone could trace back its origin to the apostles” - itoy inilathala ni Brod. C. P. Sandoval sa Pasugo Magazine –April 1965- page 41.
SASAGUTIN PO NATIN PONTO-4-PUNTO ANG MGA TANONG MO
Tanong #1: Mayroon bang nakasulat sa bible na Iglisya Katolika Apostolica Romana?
Sagot po natin ay mayroon pong mababasa sa Biblia na Iglisya Katolika Apostolica Romana.
Mababasa natin ang Iglesia (Church) (): Mat. 16:18 “18} And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it (KJV).
Mababasa natin ang Katolika (Catholic) (): James 1:1 “Catholic Epistles of St. James the Apostles” (Douay Rheims Version).
Mababasa natin ang Apostolica (Apostolic): Mat.10:39 “Apostolic discourse” (Jerusalem Bible); Act. 1:25 to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs (TNIV).
Mababasa natin ang Romana (Roman): Rom. 1:1 “The Epistle of Paul the Apostle to the Romans” (KJV)
Kapatid na Jenny baka isipin mo na ang word na Catholic ay mababasa lamang sa Catholic Bible; narito po ang karagdagang ebedinsya sa na mababasa talaga ang word na Catholic sa Bible:
Catholic or General Epistles (Introduction of the Greek New Testament –Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft- Page 48)
Catholic Epistles- A term applied to the Epistles of James, Peter, John and Jude. It goes back to the early church father, but how it arose is unknown. The most commonly accepted explanation is that these epistles were addressed, not to individual churches or persons but to a number to the church at large, i.e., the universal church (NIV Compact Dictionary of the Bible, Page 108)
Kapatid na Jenny kung gusto mo ay sa isang citas lang sa biblia natin babasahin ang na Iglisya Katolika Apostolica Romana; ang sagot parin natin ay MAYROON MABABASA at MAIINTINDIHAN.
The Jerusalem Bible: ROMANS “The letter of Paul to the Church in Rome” Chapter 1, Verse 7-8 “ To you all, then, who are God’s beloved in Rome, called to be saints, may God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ send grace and peace. First I thank my God through Jesus spoken of all over the world.”
The Greek New Testament: Roma 1:8 Πρῶτον μὲν εὐχαριστῶ τῷ θεῷ μου διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ περὶ πάντων ὑμῶν ὅτι ἡ πίστις ὑμῶν καταγγέλλεται ἐν ὅλῳ τῷ κόσμῳ,
Roma 1:8 ………………………he pistis humon KATAggelletai en holo to kosmo,
Novum Testamentum Latine : Roma 1:7-8 7omnibus qui sunt Romae dilectis Dei vocatis sanctis gratia vobis et pax a Deo Patre nostro et Domino Iesu Christo 8primum quidem gratias ago Deo meo per Iesum Christum pro omnibus vobis quia fides vestra adnuntiatur in universo mundo.
dito ating makikita na ang Iglisya sa Roma ang may maramin bunga at narinig ang pananampalataya nito sa buong (Universal or catholic) mundo. At mapapansin sa itaas na sa Roma 1:1,6-8 mababasa at maiintindihan natin na may nabangkit na Iglesia, Roma, Universa or Catholic (Paki tingnan sa ibaba ang masusing explanation) at itoy Apostolica dahil si San Pablo ang sumulat nito sa Roma, at si San Pablo ay Apostol.
CATHOLIC-universal (Webster’s II New Riverside Pocket Dictionary, Page 45)
CATHOLIC-members of the Universal or Catholic Church (Webster’s New School & Office Dictionary, Page 142)
CATHOLIC-or Universal (Introduction to the Catholic Epistles of James, Douay Rheims Version)
Luke 4:14 (Novum Testamentum Latine) -UNIVERSAM
Luke 4 :14 (Novum Testamentum Graece) -ATHOLIS)
1 Cor. 14:23 (Novum Testamentum Latine) 23si ergo conveniat universa ecclesia in unum et omnes linguis loquantur intrent autem idiotae aut infideles nonne dicent quod insanities.
Gawa 9:31 ΠΡΑΞΕΙΣ 9:31 Greek NT: WH / NA27 / UBS4 with Concordance
ἡ μὲν οὖν ἐκκλησία καθ’ ὅλης τῆς Ἰουδαίας καὶ Γαλιλαίας καὶ Σαμαρείας εἶχεν εἰρήνην οἰκοδομουμένη καὶ πορευομένη τῷ φόβῳ τοῦ κυρίου καὶ τῇ παρακλήσει τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος ἐπληθύνετο.
Gawa 9:31 Mababasa natin sa Grego ang EKKLESIA KATHOLIS (- which correspond to Catholic Church.
Liban sa Biblia ang KASAYSAYAN ay nag papatunay rin na ang Roman Catholic Church ay ang iglesyang itinatag ni Cristo-Jesus. Dapat malaman ng ating mga giliw na mga kapatid na mga non-catholic na ang HISTORY-is the study of the past particularly the written record of the human race, but more generally including SCIENTIFIC and ARCHAELOGICAL discoveries about the past. At ang Bible mismo ay isang HISTORICAL Books.
More than 1900 years ago, Jesus Christ the Son of God, come upon earth to save mankind. After His atoning death on the cross He rose glorious and immortal. Before leaving this world to go to the Father, our Lord founded the Catholic Church and gave to that church the command to “teach all nations” (The Old World and America by Furlong-Page 100).
Grollier Encyclopedia –volume V, page 106: “Catholic Church (Gr. Katholikos, universal, general). Term generally applied to the Divine society founded by Jesus Christ, and endowed by the outpouring of the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost.”
The New Webster’s Dictionary of the English Language (International Edition): Page 155: CATHOLIC- of the original Christian Church before the schism between East and West (ORTHODOXY)// of the Roman or western church after this schism and before the Reformation.
Information Almanac 1988 –Page 724: Roman Catholics- Traditionally, by Jesus who named St. Peter the 1st vicar; historically in early Christian proselytizing and the conversion of imperial Rome in the 4th century.
International Encyclopedia Volume 15,Page 520: Roman Catholic Church – there are two equally valid definitions of the Catholic Church comparable to the twofold nature of Jesus Christ its founder.
At marami pang ibang mga Standard references na nag papatunay na si Cristo talaga ang founder ng Roman Catholic Church tulad ng:
-World Almanac and Book of Facts –1986 Edition- Page 243-
-New Book of Knowledge Encyclopedia –Volume 18, Page 287-
-Young Student Encyclo.–Weekly Reader Book- Vol. 18, Page 2021/2121
Nasagot po ang tanong #1
#2: Patunayan nyong hindi bawal kumakain ng dugo
Noon ang dugo ay ginagamit ng mga Israylita para sa alay dahil sa kanilang kasalanan kayat itoy ipinagbawal kainin (Leviticus 17:10-11 And whatsoever man [there be] of the house of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn among you, that eateth any manner of blood; I will even set my face against that soul that eateth blood, and will cut him off from among his people. For the life of the flesh [is] in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it [is] the blood [that] maketh an atonement for the soul.)
Kahit na sa panahon ng mga apostolis ang dugo ay ipinagbawal dahil itoy kanilang napanunod sa relihiyong Judaismo ng Kanilang mga magulang (Act 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.)
Ngunit unti-unti’y namulat o nakita ng mga Apostolis na itong mga PAGKAIN ay walang kaugnayan hinggil sa Kaligtasan bagkus ang nabubuhay sa Grasya ng Dios; “sapagkat ang pag-pasok ng tao sa kaharian ng Diyos ay hindi nababatay sa kinakain at inumin kundi sa pagiging matuwid, pagkakasundo-sundo at kagalakan na pawing kaloob ng Espiritu Santo” (Roma 14:17 Tagalog Popular Version or TPV)
Ipinagtibay ni San Pablo na huwag hamakin ang kumakain ng kahit lamang gulay, at huwag naming hatulan ng kumakain lamang ng gulay ang kumakain ng kahit ano, sapagkat siyay tinanggap ng Diyos. (Roma 14:3 TPV)
Ang prinsipyo na ito ay sinimulan ng panginoon… “Kayo man baga’y wala ring pang-unawa? Tugon ni Jesus. Hindi ba ninyo alam na hindi nakapagpaparumi sa tao ang kinakain nya, sapagkat hindi naman pumapasok iyon sa kanayang puso, kundi sa tiyan at pagkatapos ay idudumi. (Sa pagkasabi nito’y para nang ipinahayag ni Jesus na maaring kanin ang lahat ng pagkain) Marcos 7:18-19
Eze. 39:17-21(KJV) And, thou son of man, thus saith the Lord GOD; Speak unto every feathered fowl, and to every beast of the field, Assemble yourselves, and come; gather yourselves on every side to my sacrifice that I do sacrifice for you, [even] a great sacrifice upon the mountains of Israel, that ye may eat flesh, and drink blood. Ye shall eat the flesh of the mighty, and drink the blood of the princes of the earth, of rams, of lambs, and of goats, of bullocks, all of them fatlings of Bashan. } And ye shall eat fat till ye be full, and drink blood till ye be drunken, of my sacrifice which I have sacrificed for you. Thus ye shall be filled at my table with horses and chariots, with mighty men, and with all men of war, saith the Lord GOD. And I will set my glory among the heathen, and all the heathen shall see my judgment that I have executed, and my hand that I have laid upon them.
Leviticus 10:18 Behold, the blood of it was not brought in within the holy [place:] ye should indeed have eaten it in the holy [place,] as I commanded.
Dito malinaw kapatid na Jenny na ang dugo ay ipapakain.
#3: Hindi bawal ang pagsamba ng dios-diosan?
At tungkol naman sa mga dios-diosan, siguro ang ibig mong sabihin ay ang mga imahe ng mga santo. Ang mga mga imahe ng mga santo ay hindi dios-diosan sapagkat hindi sila kinikilalang Diyos ng mga Katoliko at hindi ito ang doctrina ng santa Iglesia Catolica na mga Dios ang mga ito.
Kung may mga katolikong kumikilala na ang mga imahe ay Dios, sila ay nagkasala na tinatawag ng ADOLATRIA ayon narin sa batas ng Santa Iglesia Catolica.
Ito ang tunay na turo ng Santa Iglesia Catolica hingil sa mga imahen:
“We honor sacred images in order to show our veneration for the person the represent, not to adore them as gods.” (My Catholic Faith, Page 191)
“We do not pray to the crucifix, to the images and relics of the saint but to the person they represent” (Catholic Catechism, Number 565)
Hindi ba malinaw na ang aral ng Santa Iglesia Catolica na ang mga imahe ay hindi sinasamba bilang Diyos.
At ano naman ang pahayag ng mga protestante tungkol sa pagsamba ng dios-diosan:
Idolatry –the worship of false gods (NIV Compact Dictionary of the Bible, Page 266)
At ano ang sabi ni San Pablo 1 Cor 8:4 “So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world”
Siguro sasabihin ng mga ministro ni Manalo at nang ibang protestante na paggawa ng mga imahe ng mga santo ay pagsamba ng mg adios-diosan ay nagkakamali sila.
At kung sasabihin rin ng mga ministro ni Manalo mali ang pag gawa ng mga imahe; ang sagot natin jan ay hindi lahat.
Ang Diyos pa mismo ang nagpagawa ng mga imahe ng mga anghil Ex 25:18-22 “And thou shalt make two cherubims [of] gold, [of] beaten work shalt thou make them, in the two ends of the mercy seat. {25:19} And make one cherub on the one end, and the other cherub on the other end: [even] of the mercy seat shall ye make the cherubims on the two ends thereof. {25:20} And the cherubim shall stretch forth [their] wings on high, covering the mercy seat with their wings, and their faces [shall look] one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubims be. {25:21} And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee. {25:22} And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which [are] upon the ark of the testimony, of all [things] which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.
At sa templo pa ng Diyos ipalalagay ang mga banal na imahe 2 Cron 3:1, 7, 10-13(KJV) “Then Solomon began to build the house of the LORD at Jerusalem in mount Moriah, where [the LORD] appeared unto David his father, in the place that David had prepared in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite. {3:7} He overlaid also the house, the beams, the posts, and the walls thereof, and the doors thereof, with gold; and graved cherubims on the walls.10 And in the most holy house he made two cherubims of image work, and overlaid them with gold. {3:11} And the wings of the cherubims [were] twenty cubits long: one wing [of the one cherub was] five cubits, reaching to the wall of the house: and the other wing [was likewise] five cubits, reaching to the wing of the other cherub. {3:12} And [one] wing of the other cherub [was] five cubits, reaching to the wall of the house: and the other wing [was] five cubits [also,] joining to the wing of the other cherub. {3:13} The wings of these cherubims spread themselves forth twenty cubits:
At ang utos ng Diyos na doon tayo sumamba sa kanya, sa lugar na pinili ng Diyos, ito ay ang kangyang templo na may imahe 2 Cron 7:15-16(KJV) Now mine eyes shall be open, and mine ears attent unto the prayer [that is made] in this place. {7:16} For now have I chosen and sanctified this house, that my name may be there for ever: and mine eyes and mine heart shall be there perpetually.
Mailinaw na malinaw kapatid na ipinag utos ng Diyos na doon sumamba sa kanyang templo (structural) na may mga imahe (Ex 25:18-22) (2 Cron 3:1, 7, 10-13) (2 Cron 7:15-16)…….sumunod ba kayo rito?
#4: Bawal na pag-aasawa ng mga pari?
Ang aral ng Katoliko tungkol sa Celibacy o ang hindi pag-aasawa ng mga pari alang-alang sa Diyos ay nasa Biblia at turo ito ng Panginoong Jesus.
Ang sabi ni apostol Pablo sa 1 Cor. 7:8, 32-33 (KJV) “{7:8} I say therefore to the unmarried and widows, It is good for them if they abide even as I. {7:32} But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord: {7:33} But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please [his] wife.
At pakakatandaan natin na si Apostol San Pablo ay Pari-Roma 15:16 (Cebuano Popular Version)
Ang Panginoong Jesu-Cristo ay ganito rin ang itinoro sa Mat. 19:12 (KJV) “For there are some eunuchs, which were so born from [their] mother’s womb: and there are some eunuchs, which were made eunuchs of men: and there be eunuchs, which have made themselves eunuchs for the kingdom of heaven’s sake. He that is able to receive [it,] let him receive [it.”
At pakakatandaan natin na ang Panginoon Jesu-Cristo ay Pari- Heb. 3:1 (Cebuano Popular Version.)
#5: Hindi bawal ang fiesta?
Ang Fiesta – ito po ay otos at toru na mababasa natin sa Biblia
1 Cor 5:8 (KJV) “8} Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened [bread] of sincerity and truth.
Sa katunayan ay namimista ang Panginoong Jesu-Cristo taon-taon Luke 22:1, 78 (KJV) “{22:1} Now the feast of unleavened bread drew nigh, which is called the Passover. {22:2} And the chief priests and scribes sought how they might kill him; for they feared the people. {22:7} Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed. {22:8} And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.
Ang Fiesta ng Santa Iglesia Catolica ay ang pagdiriwang at pag-alaala sa mga Santo, kay Santa Maria at mismo sa Dios.
At hindi po totoong kami ay nang-uusig sa Iglesia ni Cristo ni Manalo bagkos ang mga ministro ang nang-uusig sa mga Paring katoliko.
At kapatid kong tongkol naman sa debate ng Iglesia ni Cristo Team VS Catholic Faith Defensers Team, pawing puro makatutuhanan po ang mga isinulat naming.
Kapatid na Jenny hindi po kami bulag, sa katunayan wala ho kaming kahit isang kosing na matatanggap sa mga Pari, gusto lang namin na maiparating ang tamang aral ng Santa Iglesia Catolica.
Kapatid na Jenny wag ho sana kayong maghusga sa amin…Suriin mo ang Docrina ng Santa Iglesia Catolica ng taos puso…tiyak ko na gagaya Karin nila…
Claudine said
TAMAAAAAA ! :))
Nino Joaquin V. Eugenio said
I don’t know what is wrong with those guys. They have no tolerance for the faith of others. I’m a Catholic, but everytime i see good in people who belong to a different Christian or even islamic group. I find it hard to deny them the possibility of heaven or good place when this life is over.Tolerance is a sign of maturity. I have attended, several times infact, their one sided debate called doktrina. My bestfriend belongs to the I.N.K or C. The more he tries to indoctrinate me in the teachings of INC.only strengthens my belief in the Catholic faith. One more thing. Serving God by going to church is an obligation of every christian, but christians should not be obligated to go to church just because they have flip their attendance cards or whatever it is that they do over there. As a creation of God it is our duty to worship and praise him. But he’d rather we do it, more as an act of love and not as an obligation.
babylab said
sa mga non-catholics po, huwag nyo naman po sana i condemn ang mga Katoliko.Malaya po tayo nakakapili kung ano man na rehiliyon ang gustuhin natin. Sa simbahan Katoliko ay hindi po kami tinuruan na kamuhian, o i jugde, o i condemn ang sinuman na nasa labas ng aming simbahan. Tinuruan po kami manalangin para sa lahat katoliko man o anti-Katoliko. Masakit lang po isipin na milyung milyon na ang ginugul ng iba reliyon para hanapan lang po ng pagkakamali ang ating simbahang Katoliko. Nadarama pa kaya nila ang presensya ng Diyos habang tinutuligsa nila ang ating relihiyon, nadarama pa kaya nila ang tunay na kahalagahan ng pangangaral ng salita ng Diyos habang pinagtatawanan ang nasa labas ng kanila simbahan? sa staff po ng website na to, maraming maraming salamat po,Thank po for defending Our Catholic Faith, God bless Us all
babylab said
sa mga non-catholics po,huwag nyo naman po sana i condemn ang mga Katoliko. Malaya po tayo nakakapili kung ano man relihiyon ang gustuhin natin. Sa simbahan Katoliko ay hindi po kami tinuturuan na kamuhian, o i-judge, o i-condemn ang sinuman na nasa labas ng aming simbahan. Sa halip ay tinuruan po kami na isama sa panalangin ang lahat, katoliko man o anti-katoliko. Para sa kabutihan po ng lahat ang aming pinapanalangin sa Diyos. Masakit lang po isipin na milyung-milyong peso na ang ginugugol ng iba secta para hanapan lamang po ng pagkakamali ang ating simbahang katoliko. habang napanood ko po ang kanilang program may mga katanungan po ako nabuo sa isip……Nadarama pa kaya nila ang presensya ng Diyos habang tinutuligsa nila ang ating relihiyon? nadarama pa kaya nila ang tunay na kahalagahan ng pangangaral ng salita ng Diyos habang pinagtatawanan ang nasa labas ng kanilang simbahan? Natutuwa pa kaya po ang Diyos sa kanila ginagawa? Ganito po ba ang tunay na pangangaral ng salita ng Diyos?…….sa bumubuo na stagg po ng catholicdefender, maraming maraming salamat po, Thank you po for defending Our Catholic Faith, God bless us all
Jun jun jukem Abapo said
To Ms. o Mrs Babylab
Hindi lamang po dapat na malaya tayo sa pagpili ng Relihiyon kundi dapat na may kaakibat na masusing pagsusuri sa kung ano ba talaga at saan papunta ang lakad ng kinabibilangan mong sekta. Unang-una alamin mo kung sa Relihiyon mo ba makikita ang tunay na kaligtasan?Alam mo ba kung bakit kailangan naming tuligsain? actually ang ginamit mong word na “Tuligsa” ay hindi angkop na salita para sa ginagawa namin, ang tamang katawagan doon ay pagtuwid,pag-agaw sa apoy o pag-aakay sa tamang daan, Kailangan naming ituwid kayo at dalhin sa tamang daan sapagkat isang napakalaking baluktot na daan ang inyong binabagtas…
magsuri ka ng magsuri ng magsuri pa at kahit ikaw sa sarili mo malalaman mo ang tunay na daan.
cyril said
Jun jun jukem Abapo
baka kayo ang nasa baluktot na daan..lol.
Huwag niyo nang gamabalain ang inyong sariling agawin ang apoy o akayin kami sa tamang daan dahil sa Roman Catholic lang ang katotohanan at kaligtasan. Ikaw dapat ang magsuri at magsuri at magsuri sa tunay na daan dahil talagang malayung-malayo kayo sa katotohanan.
If we could trace back the history, talagang talo na kayo, sa history pa lang yan!
dapat niyong malaman, kayong nagkukuwanring may alam, na ang santos katolikos na simbahan ang tunay na Church na ibinilin na Kristo sa mga apostol at hinding-hindi ito kailanman magigiba o mabubuwag.
To my Catholic brethrens..keep the faith.!
bats said
what a big CORRECT MY DEAR”
Jowen Lagman said
na brainwash na kc sila ni manalo..ni hindi nga nila kinikilala c jesus pero nilagay nila c cristo sa church nila..mas naniniwala sila na c manalo ay anghel kesa ky jesus na anak ng dyos..ang alam ko c manalo anghel nga pero xa c lucifer…ang hilig ng inc mag invite sa church nila at tatanungin ka kung anu religion mu saka nila sisiraan..cla lang daw ang maliligtas ibig sabhin yung mga magulang ni manalo hindi naligtas?e panu ang mga ibang christian at islam jewish at ibang relihiyon sa impyerno punta nmen lhat?hindi kya mabaligtad kayo ang mapunta dun?sinasabi nyo na my pag kkaisa kayo kaya sa eleksyon kayo iisa binoboto nyo cnu ba nkkinabang ng bibnbgay ng mga pilitko edi c manalo lng..anu ba nangyari sa mga utos ni manalo kung sinu iboboto nyo after manalo sa eleksyon ayun puro corrupt..utos ba ng dyos yun na yun ang iboto?utos cgro ng dyos nyong c manalo..
jason abalos said
May tanong po ako..
Sa isang aklat na isinulat ng PARI by ALBER HUNNI page.59
” The epistles has taken from the apocalips,a woman surrounded by the sons splender who is wearing a crown by the twelve star and the moon beniete her feet.Appears to saint john avoice announce that is hour salvation of the kingdom of jesus christ,The application to the IMMACULATE VIRGIN of LORDES is clear.
So Maliwanag.. Na sabi ng PARI nio na TURO ng IGLESIA KATOLIKA na si VIRGIN MARRY ang BABAE sa Apocalipsis 12:1.”
Anu nmn ang sinasabi ng catholic bible sa DOUAY RHIMES VERSION sa {FOOTNOTE} ng APOCALIPSIS 12:1 ganito ang sabi…
A woman,this WOMAN is NOT the BLESSED VIRGIN!
Ngayon alin po jan ang 22o? ang sabi ng pari sa aklat nio na virgin marry ang bab sa revlation 12:1
o sa catholic bible ng douay rhimes version na hindi raw si virgin marry ang babae sa revation 12:!?
pakisagot po..
henry arganda said
sayo Eulogio Busca ,ang masasabi ko lang dun sa naobserbahan mong devate between iglesia 1914 at cfd ay kasi yung dalawang nagdebate ay parehong wala sa totoo ..kaya walang linaw doon ..at hindi batayan yun na kung nanalo ang katoliko ay panalo na sila sa lahat ng sekta sa pakikipaglantugi pag na tyempuhan na nila ang tunay na iglesia sa debate tyak talo yan kasi ang mga nakakalaban nila kapwa nila bulaan din paki tanong mo si soc fernandez kung sino ang pentecostal missionary church of Christ (4th watch)na tumalo sa kanya sa public debate sa plaza sa cebu at kung gusto nya pang lumaban ulit sa amin.
Julia said
@ Mr. henry and Catholic defender
I hope, malaman natin na nakasulat din sa banal na kasulatan na hindi maganda ang nakikipagdebate lalo na kapag ang kinakalaban natin ay padala mula sa kaaway ( Demonyo ). Patuloy po tayong manalangin na sana, ang katotohanan ang manaig. Sa iyo Catholic Defender, saludo ako sa iyong pananampalataya, naway hindi mo lang alam ang mga turo nararapat ding itoy iyong isabuhay. Salamat.
catholicfaithdefender said
Thanks
catholicfaithdefender said
New Web Site of Catholic Faith Defenders Incorporated
Please visit us
http://catholicfaithdefenders.com/
john reqsan said
hello ahmm sa tingin ko hidi lahat na debate ay masama. kasi mismo ang apostoles ay nagdebate din, mababasa yan sa Acts 18:28.
yong debate na iyon ay hidi nonsense dahil ginamit ang Scriptures to prove the truth.
alam namin katoliko na mahahil namin ang kaaway at ito rin ang kagustohan ng Dios.
nais lang namin idepensa ang katotohanan kasi maraming nag aatack sa Catholic faith.
maging si Jesus at si Satan nag karoon nang argument kung “Anak ba ng Dios si Jesus” pareho silang gumamit nang kasulatan..
peace be with you
catholicfaithdefender said
Bro.
henry arganda, wag ka ngang mag sinungaling… eh kayo tong natatakot maki pag debate sa amin eh…
Sigi mag DEBATE tayo henry arganda!!!
Ano? Payag ka?
Talo man kaha me mga CFD…
Debate tayo ha….
Reply lang ha, para mapagkasunduan natin ang tema ng Debate..
sem.bhong said
bilang katoliko, before ninyo siraan ang catholic religion… alamin nyo muna ang history ng simbahan namin by using the five basic question like who, where, what when and how… Let us not act like a fundamentalist attitude.. before Saint Jerome compile the bible maraming mga hindi na include jan.. say for instance the story of jesus when was teenager… alam nyo ba yun???? eh… kung hindi totoo ang simbahan namin na Roman Catholic… eh bakit nasa St.Peter Basilica ng Rome, Italy nakalibing si St.Peter na aposteles ni Jesus ? sige nga, explain nyo yun…. alamin nyo muna ang history ng isang bagay bago kayo magbigay ng comments….
delaacecruz said
puwede bang pakig post sa detalya nong July 2008 debate
between iglesia ni cristo at cfd.
delaacecruz said
to CFD:
when christ founded the church in Matt. 1618, did christ intend that
his church will be named roman catholic apostolic churc?
cyril said
yes of course..
pki trace na lng please kung saan nanggaling ang salitang roman catholic apostolic church..
sabihin mo sa kin pagkatapos kung willing ka ng mgpaconvert ulit bilang katoliko..ha?
delaacecruz said
cfd:
based on your reply above, the name roman catholic apostolic church is not found in a single sentecce but by assembling various verses to form the name.
since the words jesus, church, jerusalem, god can also be found in the bible, using your own
scheme of combining the words to form the phrase roman catholic apostolic church, can i also form a name (Jesus God Jerusalem Church) since those words can also be found in the bible?
delaacecruz said
cfd anong sagot ninyo?
delaacecruz said
cfd
anong sagot ninyo
catholicfaithdefender said
A new comment on the post #110 “Catholic Faith Defenders Vs. Iglesia ni Cristo Debate” is waiting for your approval
Author : delaacecruz (IP: 121.97.191.193 , 121.97.191.193.BTI.NET.PH)
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Comment:
puwede bang pakig post sa detalya nong July 2008 debate
between iglesia ni cristo at cfd.-
Answer:
Wala pos a kamay ko ang Tape o video ng naturang debate… but soon Catholic Faith Defender Davao Chapter will upload the debate between Bro. Socrates Fernadez (Catholic Faith Defender) V.S. Bro. Rizalito Ocampo (Minister of Iglesia ni Cristo-manalo).
catholicfaithdefender said
Author : delaacecruz (IP: 121.97.191.193 , 121.97.191.193.BTI.NET.PH)
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Comment:
to mr fernandez:
Who founded the orthodox and assyrian church as result of
the church schism?
ANSWER (by G-one Paisones):
The schismatic Bishops broke their unity to the see of Rome and this result to the Orthodox churches. Although they are not in communion with the Pope; they have a valid ordination of Bishop, Priest and Deacon.
A new comment on the post #140 “WILES AND TACTICS OF IGLESIA NI CRISTO OF MANALO” is waiting for your approval
Author : delaacecruz (IP: 222.126.60.10 , 222.126.60.10)
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Comment:
To Mr. Fernandez:
when christ founded his church in matt 16:18, did Jesus intend His church would have an official name?
ANSWER:
Matt. 16:18 is refers to the true church of Christ and it is the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic…
In my Bible (as of now); Matt. 16:18 does not contains an official name but it can be understood through logical reasoning with the help of the grace of God that it is the Catholic Church.
We have the proofs that the church (in Mat. 16:18) is the Catholic Church; -these proofs are the following:
1. It is Biblical
2. It is Logical
3. It is Historical
Biblical –in the sense that the church founded by Jesus Christ (Matt. 16:18) is the Catholic Church (Act 9:31 Greek Bible)
The Jerusalem Bible: ROMANS “The letter of Paul to the Church in Rome” Chapter 1, Verse 7-8 “ To you all, then, who are God’s beloved in Rome, called to be saints, may God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ send grace and peace. First I thank my God through Jesus spoken of all over the world.”
The Greek New Testament: Roma 1:8 Πρῶτον μὲν εὐχαριστῶ τῷ θεῷ μου διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ περὶ πάντων ὑμῶν ὅτι ἡ πίστις ὑμῶν καταγγέλλεται ἐν ὅλῳ τῷ κόσμῳ,
Roma 1:8 ………………………he pistis humon KATAggelletai en holo to kosmo,
Novum Testamentum Latine : Roma 1:7-8 7omnibus qui sunt Romae dilectis Dei vocatis sanctis gratia vobis et pax a Deo Patre nostro et Domino Iesu Christo 8primum quidem gratias ago Deo meo per Iesum Christum pro omnibus vobis quia fides vestra adnuntiatur in universo mundo.
CATHOLIC-universal (Webster’s II New Riverside Pocket Dictionary, Page 45)
CATHOLIC-members of the Universal or Catholic Church (Webster’s New School & Office Dictionary, Page 142)
CATHOLIC-or Universal (Introduction to the Catholic Epistles of James, Douay Rheims Version)
Luke 4:14 (Novum Testamentum Latine) -UNIVERSAM
Luke 4 :14 (Novum Testamentum Graece) -kaq olhV (KATHOLIS)
1 Cor. 14:23 (Novum Testamentum Latine) 23si ergo conveniat universa ecclesia in unum et omnes linguis loquantur intrent autem idiotae aut infideles nonne dicent quod insanities.
1 Cor. 14:23 Universa ecclesia or Catholic Church.
Logical- because Christ is not a liar (1 Pet. 2:22); Christ promise that He is always accompanying His church until the end of time (Matt. 28:19-20) and the power of death shall prevail against the Church (Matt. 16:18). Therefore it is very obvious that the true church from the time of Christ up to nowadays where present and will still exist until the end of time. If we are going to know what is the original church that was founded by Jesus Christ; the first thing should we bear in mind by asking our selves that “that this _____ church can trace its origin back in time of Christ?” Through this question we can easily select the true church out of 33000 Christian denominations – and this church is the Catholic Church. (“So we don’t question the claim of the Catholic Apologist, that the Catholic Church alone could trace back its origin to the apostles” –By Brod. C. P. Sandoval sa Pasugo Magazine –April 1965- page 41.)
Historical- Many standard references such us Word History, Church History, Encyclopedia, World Almanac, Dictionary, and many reliable and factual references says that the Catholic Church is the True Church Founded by Jesus Christ.
More than 1900 years ago, Jesus Christ the Son of God, come upon earth to save mankind. After His atoning death on the cross He rose glorious and immortal. Before leaving this world to go to the Father, our Lord founded the Catholic Church and gave to that church the command to “teach all nations” (The Old World and America by Furlong-Page 100).
Grollier Encyclopedia –volume V, page 106: “Catholic Church (Gr. Katholikos, universal, general). Term generally applied to the Divine society founded by Jesus Christ, and endowed by the outpouring of the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost.”
The New Webster’s Dictionary of the English Language (International Edition): Page 155: CATHOLIC- of the original Christian Church before the schism between East and West (ORTHODOXY)// of the Roman or western church after this schism and before the Reformation.
Information Almanac 1988 –Page 724: Roman Catholics- Traditionally, by Jesus who named St. Peter the 1st vicar; historically in early Christian proselytizing and the conversion of imperial Rome in the 4th century.
International Encyclopedia Volume 15,Page 520: Roman Catholic Church – there are two equally valid definitions of the Catholic Church comparable to the twofold nature of Jesus Christ its founder.
At marami pang ibang mga Standard references na nag papatunay na si Cristo talaga ang founder ng Roman Catholic Church tulad ng:
-World Almanac and Book of Facts –1986 Edition- Page 243-
-New Book of Knowledge Encyclopedia –Volume 18, Page 287-
-Young Student Encyclo.–Weekly Reader Book- Vol. 18, Page 2021/2121
catholicfaithdefender said
Author : delaacecruz (IP: 222.126.60.10 , 222.126.60.10)
E-mail : delaacecruz@yahoo.com
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Comment:
cfd:
based on your reply above, the name roman catholic apostolic church is not found in a single sentecce but by assembling various verses to form the name.
since the words jesus, church, jerusalem, god can also be found in the bible, using your own
scheme of combining the words to form the phrase roman catholic apostolic church, can i also form a name (Jesus God Jerusalem Church) since those words can also be found in the bible?
ANSWER:
One, Holy, Apostolic and Catholic Church are the marks of the true church base on the Bible. Some protestant admit that One, Holy, Apostolic and Catholic Church are the marks of the true church (e.g. Seventh Day Adventist Church).
It is called Roman Catholic to signify that the said church (local church around the globe) is in communion with the see of the Bishop of Rome the successor of Saint Peter the first Bishop of Rome.
Even though the name Roman Catholic Apostolic Church did not found in a single sentence in my Bible (as of now) but the name Catholic Church can be found in the Bible (in Greek it is EKKLESIA KATHOLIS) (in Cebuano it is “Simbahang Katoliko”).
It is universal fact that when we said Catholic Church it is pertaining to the One, Holy, Apostolic, Catholic, and Roman Church.
delaacecruz said
Rebuttal: by delaacecruz
TOPIC 1
ANSWER (by G-one Paisones): The schismatic Bishops broke their unity to the see of Rome and this result to the
Orthodox churches. Although they are not in communion with the Pope;
they have a valid ordination of Bishop, Priest and Deacon.
MY REPLY
bro. pasiones. i asked you who founded the east assyrian church but you replied that they
were result of the catholic church’s schism.you did not mention the name of the person
who founded it. question: are you confirming bro. pasiones that you could not find a specific
person who founded the east assyrian church?
———————————————————————————————
TOPIC 2
My REPLY
I asked you whether or not christ intended that his church would have an official name when he founded it.(
matthew 16;18.) you replied that althougH the noun phrase roman catholic apostolic church did not
appear in the texts but it could be understood as the RCAC through logical, biblical and historical proofs.
Don’t expand my original proposition. You’re just thinking way ahead; and the result you turned the topic
into a chopsuy.
my original and single proposition was: Resolve whether or not christ intended that his church will
have an official name.
If you want to prove that christ was the one who founded the catholic church, therefore it is the church jesus
founded in matthew 16:18, and name is RCAC that’s another topic. and we can debate about it later.
first you clarify your position on my first proposition. I will ask you again, did christ intend that
when he founded his church in matt. 16:18, it will have an official name? If you say yes.Then we can
proceed to my next proposition. What is the name? It’s obvious however, that you already laid down your
arguments about my second proposition. but i won’t make a comment about it until you clarify your
position to my original proposition.
—————————————————————————————————-
TOPIC 3: About the marks
G Pasiones: The One, Holy, Apostolic and Catholic Church are the marks of the true church base on the Bible.
Some protestant admit that One, Holy, Apostolic and Catholic Church are the marks of the true church (e.g. Seventh Day Adventist Church).
It is called Roman Catholic to signify that the said church (local church around the globe) is in communion
with the see of the Bishop of Rome the successor of Saint Peter the first Bishop of Rome.
My Reply.
You said the one, holy, apostolic, catholic church are the true marks based on the bible.
Based on the bible also, the words: jesus, church, jerusalem, god are also there. why did
you pick the words holy, apostolic, catholic as the true marks over the words: jesus, church, jerusalem, god
since the words i selected can also be found in the bible?
if you noticed, i only used your nitpicking scheme to form the phrasal mark: jesus god jerusalem church
to test the validity of your scheme. Unfortunately, you just rehashed your argument by saying
it’s the true marks because they are in the bible. the words i picked are also in the bible. So, if you based
the validity of the marks because they are in the bible, then you will be forced to accept mine as well
because they are in the bible too.
another thing, you said the some protestants attested that the words roman, catholic, apostolic church (RCAC)
are the true marks. So what if they said that? are you suggesting their admission is a proof of
the correctness of the marks? Protestants said that RCAC doctrines run contrary to the bible, do you
believe them too because they made such pronouncement?
romana said
Mr. you’re being trap into fallacy, your question cannot be answere in one sentence alone.you need to use logical thinking.
delaacecruz said
what’s your reply?
delaacecruz said
by the way jason abalos posited a question about the
mary in rev 12:1 and ryhmes douay catholic version
footnote. so far, i haven’t seen any response from
the spirited CFD especially from the one, who wrote a blog for mr. henry agrada, challenging him to a debate.
catholicfaithdefender said
G-one Replies to delaacecruz Rebuttals:
TOPIC 1
As of now I am not aware of the Orthodox Church. It is true that I could not find a specific person who founded the east assyrian church (as of now). But the church says about them:
SECOND VATICAN COUNCIL –Orientalium Ecclesiarum (Eastern Churches)- Number 25. “If any separated Eastern Churches should under be the guidance of grace of the Holy Spirit, join himself to the Catholic unity, no more should be required of him than what a simple profession of the Catholic faith demands. A valid priesthood is preserved among Eastern clerics. Hence, upon joining themselves to the unity of the Catholic Church, Eastern clerics are permitted to exercise the orders they possess, in accordance with the regulations established by the competent authority.
TOPIC 2
MY REPLY:
I had been answered already that “Matt. 16:18 does not contains an official name but it can be understood through logical reasoning with the help of the grace of God that it is the Catholic Church.” Therefore in Matt. 16:18 Christ did not intend that the church would have an official name because there was only one Christian church at that time when Christ build His church. As a matter of fact from the time of Christ to the 11th century all Christians were members of one church- the Catholic Church.
The church had marks that we could recognize its genuine identity among other churches (also claiming that they are the true church founded by Christ). These marks are: ONE, HOLY, APOSTOLIC and CATHOLIC.
In the time of reformation many protestant churches claim that they are the true church founded by Christ. As the result of reformation Christians were divided because there were many churches in almost part of Europe. As the time goes on, the true church must have its official name so that it can be recognized by all people in whole world specially those people that were not aware or recognize Christianity as separate institution with respect to the protestant churches.
As Christ gives the authority in His disciples the power in administrating the universal church (Mat. 18:18), they exercise this power to give the name of the church “ONE, HOLY, CATHOLIC, CHURCH”
TOPIC 3
MY REPLY:
I pick the words one, holy, apostolic, catholic as marks of the true church because:
-ONE-
The true church is one and united because the church founded by Christ was only ONE church (Matt. 16:18), and the members of this church were united (“And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd. {10:17} Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.” John 10:16 KJV) ([There is] one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; {4:5} One Lord, one faith, one baptism, {4:6} One God and Father of all, who [is] above all, and through all, and in you all.” Ephe. 4:4-5) (“That they all may be one; as thou, Father, [art] in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.” John 17:21). Unlike many (majority) protestant churches (fundamental and Evangelicals) they are many (contrary to ONE church) and not united in there governance, doctrines, dogma, etc (contrary to the Universal church).
-HOLY-
The true church is holy because its founder Christ is Holy (Luke 1:35, Act. 4:27, 30). “Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.” (1 Pet. 1:16 KJV). 1 Cor. 14:33 “For God is not [the author] of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.” Some protestant sects were founded by unholy man contrary to the founder of Catholic Church.
-APOSTOLIC-
The true church is apostolic because it started (begin) in the apostolic era (“And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone; ]” Efe. 2:20 KJV). And this church still exist nowadays (Matt. 16:18, Matt 28:20). Protestantism was begun in 17th century; therefore all protestant churches are not an apostolic church.
-CATHOLIC-
The true church is catholic because Christ wanted that His gospel would be preached in whole world (Matt. 28-19-20) and he (Christ) taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? (Mark 11:17).
My contention is not only picking a word that can be found in the Bible but also in logical way of reasoning “that the characteristic of the true church founded by Jesus Christ are ONE, HOLY CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC.” I am also using other standard references (encyclopedia, history, etc.) and protestant articles that support my contention.
These characteristics (ONE, HOLY CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC) of the church are serving as measuring tools to test (compare) all churches that claim to be the true church founded by Christ. If the church (tested church) have all the characteristics of the true church founded by Christ then it is the TRUE CHURCH!
The protestant attest also that the marks of the true church are ONE, HOLY CATHOLIC and APOSTOLIC- this is an evidence of my arguments since they are protestant sects that are independent to the Catholic Church and oppose some of the teaching of the Catholic Church. As the rules of argumentation and debate, it is a valid proof of my contention because there articles (references) are not self serving to the Catholic Church; and it can be countered by the opponent by showing another proof (contrary to the affirmative) serves as a counter proposition.
I am not suggesting that their admission is a proof (entire evidence) of the correctness of the marks of the true church but it can help (even in a small percentage) to advance my stand of the said topic.
I am not believed in the protestant teaching when it is contrary to the Catholic Church teaching because the Catholic Church is the pillar and ground of the truth.
If protestant says that the Catholic Church teaches a doctrine contrary to the Bible, we Catholic Faith Defenders are always ready to combat (debate, dialogue) their (protestant) heresies and false teaching.
delaacecruz said
it appears to me that only one man has been doing for the
work in this website. I wonder if the CFD organization
has been given support by their beloved church.
The pattern of the answers look like it came from one source.
To the defenders of the Catholic faith, did you really believe that your overlords give importance
to apologetics? Why is it that the underlings are in the frontline during
debates with pastors and ministers of other religions, who are so fanatical like you.
Let me guess, the Catholic hierarchy likes to outsource their jobs because they
have a fetish for call centers.It would be better if the Catholic bishops hire call center agents since they are better equip and well placed in offices over the ragtag, ill-equip and
antiquated CFD offices if there are any. Or the priests and bishops in this country don’t really have the nuts-and-bolts in their brain when it comes to apologetics.
Catholic leaders appear seem don’t value your organization very much because your group is usless to their favorite bread-and-butter, politics. Another explanation is that the Catholic hierarchy is so busy in dividing the funds given by PACGOR. Piece of advice to CFD, why don’t you kick the butts of your lazy superiors and tell them to do their primordial job rather than hide in covents where they are competing each other in a largest-bilbil contest.
cyril said
to delaacecruz
y dnt u just share with us your evidences about your accusation? its as if ur driven by ur own interpretation without valid source. no wonder why most of the people wanted to build “another” church because they felt their interpretations are right. lol.
Kaya nga may tinatawag na catholic faith defender dahil sila na ang magdedefend hindi naman kailangan ang mga pari na mismo ang sasagot dahil nakatuon ang mga pari sa kani-kanilang parokya. gets?
At wag ka sana agad manghusga sa mga bagay na hindi mo talaga tunay na nalaman. wala namang patutunguhan kung sagot kami ng sagot paratang ka naman ng paratang…
at wag mxado mg wori dhil sa spanish period lng nangyari na humihithit sila ng datong sa gobyerno.. at most of those priests na spanish, alang proper breeding. ngayon, gifts na lng ngayun. bkit, babawalan mo ba ang mga politikong magbigay? kasalanan bang tumanggap? at dnt wori hndi nmn aangkinin ng mga pari yan eh, ibinibigay nmn yan sa mga parishioners niya..
nagseselos ka lng cguro dhil may nagbibigay ng gifts.
Sa inyo kasi pinipilit nyong mga members nyo na mgbigay khit wla ng datung…bka nag cacaroling pa nga cguro kayo eh pra may funds…at pki check na rin sa pastor nyo kung ano ginagawa niya jan..bka he didnt practice what he preached…
see u na lng sa end time..dun lng ntin malalaman kung sino ang katotohanan…bsta ako sure ako sa catholic ang huling halakhak.
catholicfaithdefender said
bro be one of us… be a Catholic Faith Defenders!!!!
william said
Sabi nga nila Mas masahol pa sa bobo ang bobong nagmarunong 😀
poor souls.. kaanib?.. kalokohan.. manalo a self-proclaimed angel. . . messenger ek ek of god?… isnt that obvious he’s bulaag propeta!!
and besides tama naman po c kua CFD. .
aber kawawa naman yung mga kaanib ninyo iisa lang ang panginoon malamang sya yung naktakda sa ibang tao na naging santo or yung mga pinagpakitaan nya ng miracles..
God is supreme!!
nasa mga catholic parin ang huling halak-hak!!
Nino Joaquin V. Eugenio said
Dude! Cno kaya sa atin ang sinasabihan kung cno ang iboboto. You got it in reverse pal. Poltics is your religions bread and butter, not mine.
jason abalos said
Pansinin nmn ng mga tiga CFD ito! Simple lang alin ang nagsasabi ng totoo?
May tanong po ako..
Sa isang aklat na isinulat ng PARI by ALBER HUNNI page.59
” The epistles has taken from the apocalips,a woman surrounded by the sons splender who is wearing a crown by the twelve star and the moon beniete her feet.Appears to saint john avoice announce that is hour salvation of the kingdom of jesus christ,The application to the IMMACULATE VIRGIN of LORDES is clear.
So Maliwanag.. Na sabi ng PARI nio na TURO ng IGLESIA KATOLIKA na si VIRGIN MARRY ang BABAE sa Apocalipsis 12:1.”
Anu nmn ang sinasabi ng catholic bible sa DOUAY RHIMES VERSION sa {FOOTNOTE} ng APOCALIPSIS 12:1 ganito ang sabi…
A woman,this WOMAN is NOT the BLESSED VIRGIN!
Ngayon alin po jan ang 22o? ang sabi ng pari sa aklat nio na virgin marry ang bab sa revlation 12:1
o sa catholic bible ng douay rhimes version na hindi raw si virgin marry ang babae sa revation 12:!?
pakisagot po..
jason abalos said
tsaka kung totoo tlga ang roman catholic,bakit nio nagawang mandaya sa debate sa bohol noong august 5 2006 between INC[ramil parba] vs CFD[mr.talibong na mapapanuod nio rin sa youtube [ang tamang daan cebu].
na kung saan dinaya ng iglesia katolika binago ang sitas ng biblia sa mateo 16:18 saling confraternity version na lalo pang napatunayan ng mayroon din dalang confraternity version ang INC at ng pinaghambing ang dalawa ay parehong pareho ang biblia imprimatur [spellman]. ng basahin na sa mateo 16:18 sa biblia ng CFD na confraternity ang nkalagay …..i will build my holy roman catholic apostolic church.. ng sa INC nmn ng basahin sa mateo 16:18 sa confraternity din ang nkalagay lng ay …. i will build my church!..
ngayon ng ipasuri sa moderator ang confraternity bible ng ng mga tiga CFD ay halatang halata na makapal ang papel at iba ang kulay ng buong pahina ng mateo 16:18 at pinabago sa printing press ang sitas..
ngayon sa unang tayo palang nahuli na ang mga tiga CFD tpos na nga ang debate kaya lng sayang nmn kung di ipagpapatuloy ang debate kahit ganun ang nangyari..
ngayon sa mga tiga CFD,pede nio ba ipakita ang buong pangyayari sa nasabing debate between INC vs CFD jan sa bohol august 5 2006?
siguro nmn mayroon kayong video nian..paki upload nmn yung buo pra wala nmn masabi ang mga tumutuligsa sa inyo sa iglesia katolika pra malinaw ang lahat.
regards….
bats said
WLA BA KAYONG IBANG TANONG, O WALA NA KAYONG MAIPARATANG NA IBA? AM I CORRECT? ANU NA BANG KULAY NG BUBUNG NG SIMBAHAN NIYO PULA NA O BLUE PARI?
delaacecruz said
manga CFD, especially to Mr. Talibong:
Saguting ninyo ang tanong sa dating comelec commissioner
jason abalos.
delaacecruz said
To Mr Abalos:
I have a brief exchange through blogs with mr talibong in the catholic faith defender ozamiz chapter. You can see that in the right upper portion of this page. Now, he said that his onfraternity was a 1969 or 1968 edition. Although, Parba’s was also holding a confraternity edition, but they differ in editions.
so, all you have to do is look for a 1969 or 1968 edition, then
see for yourself if there is indeed a phrase roman catholic apostolic church” if you can’t find one, ask mr talibong through
his blog. if you want to converse with him personally, go to catholic faith defender ozamiz chapter blogsite. okidoki
catholicfaithdefender said
Sino Ba ang Babae sa Revelation 12?
Author : jason abalos (IP: 203.84.172.254 , acl1-1552bts.gw.smartbro.net)
E-mail : jokring@yahoo.com
URL : http://jokring@yahoo.com
Whois : http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=203.84.172.254
Comment:
May tanong po ako..
Sa isang aklat na isinulat ng PARI by ALBER HUNNI page.59
” The epistles has taken from the apocalips,a woman surrounded by the sons splender who is wearing a crown by the twelve star and the moon beniete her feet.Appears to saint john avoice announce that is hour salvation of the kingdom of jesus christ,The application to the IMMACULATE VIRGIN of LORDES is clear.
So Maliwanag.. Na sabi ng PARI nio na TURO ng IGLESIA KATOLIKA na si VIRGIN MARRY ang BABAE sa Apocalipsis 12:1.”
Anu nmn ang sinasabi ng catholic bible sa DOUAY RHIMES VERSION sa {FOOTNOTE} ng APOCALIPSIS 12:1 ganito ang sabi…
A woman,this WOMAN is NOT the BLESSED VIRGIN!
Ngayon alin po jan ang 22o? ang sabi ng pari sa aklat nio na virgin marry ang bab sa revlation 12:1
o sa catholic bible ng douay rhimes version na hindi raw si virgin marry ang babae sa revation 12:!?
pakisagot po..
Dear Bro. Jason,
Salamat sa comento mo sa amin, naway ang Dios ay gagabay sa iyo at sa iyong pamilya sa mga pag-araw araw na Gawain.
Sa hindi pa natin sagutin ang tanong mo, dapat malaman natin kung ano ang Book of Revelation o Apocalypse. Narito ang mga sumusunod na pahayag hinggil sa Book of Revelation:
NIV Compact Dictionary of the Bible (The Zondervan Corporation-OMF Literature Phil. Page 504-505 (emphasis added) -REVELATION, BOOK OF THE (Gr. Apokalypsis, an unveiling). Sometimes called the Apocalypse. This is the last book of the Bible and the only book of NT that is exclusively prophetic in character.
There are four main schools of interpretation:
1. Pretest- holds that Revelation is simply a picture of conditions prevalent in the Roman Empire in the late first century, cast in the form of vision and prophecy to conceal its meaning from hostile pagan.
2. Historical view contends that the book represents in symbolic form the entire course of church history from the time of writing to the final consummation, and that the mystical figures describe in it can be identified with human events in history.
3. Futurist- on the basis of the threefold division given in Revelation 1:19, suggests that “what you have seen” refers to the immediate environment of the seer and vision of Christ (1”9-19), “what is now” denotes the churches of Asia or the church age they symbolize (2:1-3:22), and “what will take later” relates to those events that will attend the return of Christ and the establishment of the city of God.
4. Idealist or Symbolic school treats Revelation as purely a dramatic picture of the conflict of good and evil.
The New Jerome Bible Handbook, Page 310. The Apocalypse (Revelation) narrates extraordinary visions that concern things normally unseen and unheard by human beings. It is unique in the New Testament, but not the ancient world… The Revelation has two focuses: Secrets of the cosmos and secret of the future. Secrets are revealed in order to present a particular interpretation of the times and to persuade the hearers or readers to think and live in a certain way.
Sa nasambit natin sa itaas, mapapansin natin na ang Revelation ay may maraming interpretations batay na rin sa bumabasa.
Atin pong talakayin ang Revelation Chapter 12 na basihan sa iyong katanungan.
Kay ALBER HUNNI is Santa Maria ang Rev. 12:1; sa DOUAY RHIMES VERSION (St. Joseph Edition) hindi si Santa Maria ang Revelation 12. Makikita po natin na para pong contradict ang statement ng dalawa (o masasabi ng iba na contrary talaga ang dalawa). Peru bakit po sinabi natin na parang contradict ang dalawa? Narito ang kasagutan:
Dapat nating malaman na ang Revelation 12:1 ay isang fusion imagery o ang topiko ng Revelation ay may maraming kahulugan at nakadependi ito sa History, Phrase, Sentence, Context, at Interpretation ng mambabasa (Ang reference ay nasa itaas).
Narito ang nakasaad sa Rev. 12:1-2 (KJV) “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: {12:2} And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.”
Ang interpretation ng dalubhasa sa Biblia tungkol sa woman ng Rev. 12:1 ay:
1. Israel = Mic. 4:9-10; Isa. 66:7; Gen. 37:9–11
2. Eve = she is part of the three-way conflict also involving her Seed and the Dragon, who is identified with the ancient serpent (the one from Eden) in 20:2. This mirrors the conflict in Genesis 3:15 between Eve, the serpent, and her unborn seed—which in turn is a symbol of the conflict between Mary, Satan, and Jesus. (from James Akin of Catholic Answer)
3. Church = because, as Rev. 12:17 tells us, “the rest of her offspring” are those who bear witness to Jesus, making them Christians. from James Akin of Catholic Answer)
4. Mary (Mother of Jesus) = Revelation 11:19- 12:1 it is Mary the Ark of New Covenant
Narito ang mga sumusonod na references:
Holy Bible- Douay Rheims Version, Page 295 –Apocalypse 12:1 Footnote -“A woman. The Church of God. It may also, by allusion, be applied to our blessed Lady. The church with the sun, that is, with Christ. She hath the moon, that is, the changeable things of the world, under her feet: and the twelve stars with which she is crown, are the twelve apostles: She is in labor and pain, whilst she brings forth her children, and Christ in them, in the midst of afflictions and persecutions.
The New Testament of the New American Bible, Page 626- Revelation 12: 1f. 4-6 Notes: “The Woman adorned with the sun, the moon, and the starts symbolized God’s people in the Old and New Testament; Gn 37, 9f. The Israel of old gave birth to Messiah (v 5) and then became the New Israel, the church, which suffers persecution by the dragon (vv 6:13-17).
Biblia sa Kristohanong Katilingban (Christian Community Bible) Page 485- Revelation 12 Notes: “Ang babaye nagpasabot sa katawhan nga mitabang sa plano sa Diyos, si Maria nga nanganak kang Jesus; siya ang simbahan nga “mikagiw sa disyerto”, sa ato pa, nagkinabuhing espirituhanong layo sa kalibutan, apan giamoma sa pulong sa Diyos panahon sa panglutos. TAGALOG: “Ang babae (ibigsabihin) ay ang mamamayang tomulong sa plano ng Diyos, Si Maria na nagluwal kay Jesus; siya ang simbahan na pumunta (tumongo) sa disyerto, ibigsabihin ay nabubuhay sa espiritual (spiritual way of living) na malayo sa pansanlibutan na buhay (masasamang bagay), peru inaalagaan ng Diyos sa panahon ng kagipitan.”
Revelation a Divine Message of Hope by: Fr. Bruce Vawter, CM. ((Catholic Information Service, Knights of Columbus Supreme Council, New Haven CT 06521-1971)) – (Imprimatur John F. Whealon, Archbishop of Hartford) Page 44 “The first sign is “a woman clothed with the sun; with the moon beneath her feet and the twelve starts in a crown about her head. As we see from the complete description of this woman (12:1-2, 5-6), she is both the Church and the Mother of the Messiah. The Church is presented both glorified and in her period of trial, all at once… The Child to whom the woman gives birth in v.5 is certainly Jesus, as He is describe in the messianic language of Psalm 2:9.
Conclusion:
Kaya kung ang buong chapter sa Revelation 12 ang pagbabatayan natin iyan po ay hindi kay Santa Maria lamang nakabasi o nakatoon peru kung pagbabasihan natin ang Literal na ina ni Cristo na nag panganak sa kanya hindi rin mali na e-apply natin ang Revelation 12:1 kay Santa Maria.
Ngayon alin po jan ang totoo? ang sabi ng pari sa aklat nio na virgin mary ang bab sa revelation 12:1
o sa catholic bible ng douay rhimes version na hindi raw si virgin marry ang babae sa revelation 12:!?
Alin ba ang totoo sa dalawa ang Pari ba (ALBER HUNNI) o ang CONFRATERNITY-DOUAY VERSION? Pareho pong totoo ang dalawa SAPAGKAT KUNG TATAPOSIN LANG NATIN ANG PAGBASA SA FOOTNOTE NG CONFRATERNITY-DOUAY VERSION GANITO ANG NAKALAGAY:
CONFRATERNITY-DOUAY VERSION, PAGE 272- REVELATION 12:1 FOOTENOTE: A woman: this woman is not the Blessed Virgin, for the details of the prophecy do not fit her. The prophesy pictures the Church of the Old and New Covenants. The beams of the divine glory clothe her, the moon is beneath her feet, she is crowned with a crown of twelve stars, and she must bring forth Christ to the world. By accommodation the church applies this verse to the Blessed Virgin.
Samakatuwid nais ng may akda ng CONFRATERNITY-DOUAY VERSION na hindi lamang dapat nakatoon ang pagkakaintindi (ng mga Katoliko) sa Revelation 12:1 kay Santa Maria sapagkat ang pinag-uusapan na “BABAE” sa boung chapter 12 ng Revelation ay hindi ni SANTA MARIA naka sentro.
Nasagutan po ang inyong tanong.
Salamat
delaacecruz said
to CFD Jokring:
I find your answering very interesting. However, there are some points you need to clarify.
(1) You mentioned different school of thoughts in interpreting Revelation. In fact, you mentioned at least four ways of understanding it: PRETEST, HISTORICAL, FUTURIST AND SYMBOLIC.
Are you suggesting that in every verses or chapters in revelation, there is always at least four possible interpretations based on the school of thoughts that you aforementioned above?
(2) If the Bible is inspired by God, and He is not the source of confusion, since it is possible that there are conflicting interpretations as result of your proposed adherence of how to understand it, did God authorize it so?
(3) Concerning the conflict between the catholic bible commentaries and the priest’s interpretation, you said that duoay Rhiems commentary just suggested that one should not center his interpretations on the symbolic but also to the literal meaning.
However, i see that your aesthetic spin doctoring is an understatment if not misleading. Observed the unambiguous comments of the duoay in your quote above.
It says: “A woman: this woman is not the Blessed Virgin, for the details of the prophecy do not fit her. The prophesy pictures the Church of the Old and New Covenants”
The commentary was so categorical. It does not say that it is not Mary based on the symbolic meaning. It didn’t even bother to put a caution sign that it the verse suggest other interpretations.
on the contrary, it makes a simple declarative sentence, so assertive, saying “it’s not mary because the details of the prohecy do not fit her.” If it does not fit, then don’t make it fit.
delaacecruz said
to CFD Jokring:
Edited version
I find your answer very interesting. However, there are some points you need to clarify.
(1) You mentioned different school of thoughts in interpreting Revelation. In fact, you mentioned at least four ways of how to understand it: PRETEST, HISTORICAL, FUTURIST AND SYMBOLIC.
Are you suggesting that in every verses or chapters in revelation, there is always at least four possible interpretations based on the school of thoughts that you aforementioned above?
(2) If the Bible is inspired by God, and He is not the source of confusion, since it is possible that there are conflicting interpretations as result of your proposed adherence to the different school of thoughts, did God authorize or intend it to be that way?
(3) Concerning the conflict between the catholic bible commentaries and the priest’s interpretation, you said that duoay Rhiems commentary just suggested that one should not center his interpretations on the symbolic but also to the literal meaning.
However, i see that your aesthetic spin doctoring is an understatment if not misleading. Observed the unambiguous comments of the duoay in your quote above.
It says: “A woman: this woman is not the Blessed Virgin, for the details of the prophecy do not fit her. The prophesy pictures the Church of the Old and New Covenants”
The commentary was so categorical. It does not say that it is not Mary based on the symbolic meaning. It didn’t even bother to put a caution sign that the verse implies other interpretations.
on the contrary, it makes a simple declarative sentence, so assertive, saying “it’s not mary because the details of the prohecy do not fit her.” If it does not fit, then don’t make it fit.
PAUL said
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jason abalos said
So anu po ba ang stand catholic chruch sa Rev 12:1? Si virgin mary po ba talga? na gaya rin sabi ng pari.
Sa isang aklat na isinulat ng PARI by ALBER HUNNI page.59
” The epistles has taken from the apocalips,a woman surrounded by the sons splender who is wearing a crown by the twelve star and the moon beniete her feet.Appears to saint john avoice announce that is hour salvation of the kingdom of jesus christ,The application to the IMMACULATE VIRGIN of LORDES is clear.
At sa footnote nga ng catholic bible ng douay version na ang sabi nga roon:
“A woman: this WOMAN is not the Blessed VIRGIN.
Ang sabi nio “for the details of the prophecy do not fit her. The prophesy pictures the Church of the Old and New Covenants”
kasi po pasensya na kayo nalilito lng po kasi aq SA inyong doctrina…. sabi po ng pari nio nga’
Sa isang aklat na isinulat ng PARI by ALBER HUNNI page.59
” The epistles has taken from the apocalips,a woman surrounded by the sons splender who is wearing a crown by the twelve star and the moon beniete her feet.Appears to saint john avoice announce that is hour salvation of the kingdom of jesus christ,The application to the IMMACULATE VIRGIN of LORDES is clear.
kasi po ang quote ng pari jan e ung nsa rev 12:1 na si maria nga po ang babae na binabanggit sa REV 12:1. Kaya nga po na tingnan ko ang imahe ng rev 12:1 ang lumalabas ng imahe nga ay ang kinikilalang imahe ng iglesia katolika na si vigin mary nga.
tpos sabi nio “hindi fit kay maria ang prophecy kundi sa “The prophesy pictures the Church of the Old and New Covenants”
Na sabi po ng pari nio na si MARIA ang BABAE doon sa rev 12:1.
Papano po na ang Church of the Old and New Covenants ang binabanggit doon sa rev 12:1? Na ang banggit po roon BLESSED VIRGIN? Sino po ba yang BLESSED VIRGIN sa rev? Di po ba yang si maria na sabi ng pari sa aklat?
Kasi po sa tingin ko magka kontra tlga ang aklat na isinulat ng pari at catholic bible.
paki paliwanag po…salamat…
jason abalos said
So anu po ba ang stand catholic chruch sa Rev 12:1? Si virgin mary po ba talga? na gaya rin sabi ng pari.
Sa isang aklat na isinulat ng PARI by ALBER HUNNI page.59
” The epistles has taken from the apocalips,a woman surrounded by the sons splender who is wearing a crown by the twelve star and the moon beniete her feet.Appears to saint john avoice announce that is hour salvation of the kingdom of jesus christ,The application to the IMMACULATE VIRGIN of LORDES is clear.
At sa footnote nga ng catholic bible ng douay version na ang sabi nga roon:
“A woman: this WOMAN is not the Blessed VIRGIN.
Ang sabi nio “for the details of the prophecy do not fit her. The prophesy pictures the Church of the Old and New Covenants”
kasi po pasensya na kayo nalilito lng po kasi aq SA inyong doctrina…. sabi po ng pari nio nga’
Sa isang aklat na isinulat ng PARI by ALBER HUNNI page.59
” The epistles has taken from the apocalips,a woman surrounded by the sons splender who is wearing a crown by the twelve star and the moon beniete her feet.Appears to saint john avoice announce that is hour salvation of the kingdom of jesus christ,The application to the IMMACULATE VIRGIN of LORDES is clear.
kasi po ang quote ng pari jan e ung nsa rev 12:1 na si maria nga po ang babae na binabanggit sa REV 12:1. Kaya nga po na tingnan ko ang imahe ng rev 12:1 ang lumalabas ng imahe nga ay ang kinikilalang imahe ng iglesia katolika na si vigin mary nga.
tpos sabi nio “hindi fit kay maria ang prophecy kundi sa “The prophesy pictures the Church of the Old and New Covenants”
Na sabi po ng pari nio na si MARIA ang BABAE doon sa rev 12:1.
Papano po na ang Church of the Old and New Covenants ang binabanggit doon sa rev 12:1? Na ang banggit po roon BLESSED VIRGIN? Sino po ba yang BLESSED VIRGIN sa rev? Di po ba yang si maria na sabi ng pari sa aklat?
Kasi po sa tingin ko magka kontra tlga ang aklat na isinulat ng pari at catholic bible.
Kasi kung sasabihin nio sakin na sa Church of the old and new covenants yun eh ka kontra nmn sa aklat nio.
paki paliwanag po…salamat…
catholicfaithdefender said
Sino Ba ang Babae sa Revelation 12?
Author : jason abalos (IP: 203.84.172.254 , acl1-1552bts.gw.smartbro.net)
E-mail : jokring@yahoo.com
URL : http://jokring@yahoo.com
Whois : http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=203.84.172.254
Comment:
May tanong po ako..
Sa isang aklat na isinulat ng PARI by ALBER HUNNI page.59
” The epistles has taken from the apocalips,a woman surrounded by the sons splender who is wearing a crown by the twelve star and the moon beniete her feet.Appears to saint john avoice announce that is hour salvation of the kingdom of jesus christ,The application to the IMMACULATE VIRGIN of LORDES is clear.
So Maliwanag.. Na sabi ng PARI nio na TURO ng IGLESIA KATOLIKA na si VIRGIN MARRY ang BABAE sa Apocalipsis 12:1.”
Anu nmn ang sinasabi ng catholic bible sa DOUAY RHIMES VERSION sa {FOOTNOTE} ng APOCALIPSIS 12:1 ganito ang sabi…
A woman,this WOMAN is NOT the BLESSED VIRGIN!
Ngayon alin po jan ang 22o? ang sabi ng pari sa aklat nio na virgin marry ang bab sa revlation 12:1
o sa catholic bible ng douay rhimes version na hindi raw si virgin marry ang babae sa revation 12:!?
pakisagot po..
SINAGUTAN NI BRO. G-ONE PAISONES
Dear Bro. Jason,
Salamat sa comento mo sa amin, naway ang Dios ay gagabay sa iyo at sa iyong pamilya sa mga pag-araw araw na Gawain.
Sa hindi pa natin sagutin ang tanong mo, dapat malaman natin kung ano ang Book of Revelation o Apocalypse. Narito ang mga sumusunod na pahayag hinggil sa Book of Revelation:
NIV Compact Dictionary of the Bible (The Zondervan Corporation-OMF Literature Phil. Page 504-505 (emphasis added) -REVELATION, BOOK OF THE (Gr. Apokalypsis, an unveiling). Sometimes called the Apocalypse. This is the last book of the Bible and the only book of NT that is exclusively prophetic in character.
There are four main schools of interpretation:
1. Pretest- holds that Revelation is simply a picture of conditions prevalent in the Roman Empire in the late first century, cast in the form of vision and prophecy to conceal its meaning from hostile pagan.
2. Historical view contends that the book represents in symbolic form the entire course of church history from the time of writing to the final consummation, and that the mystical figures describe in it can be identified with human events in history.
3. Futurist- on the basis of the threefold division given in Revelation 1:19, suggests that “what you have seen” refers to the immediate environment of the seer and vision of Christ (1”9-19), “what is now” denotes the churches of Asia or the church age they symbolize (2:1-3:22), and “what will take later” relates to those events that will attend the return of Christ and the establishment of the city of God.
4. Idealist or Symbolic school treats Revelation as purely a dramatic picture of the conflict of good and evil.
The New Jerome Bible Handbook, Page 310. The Apocalypse (Revelation) narrates extraordinary visions that concern things normally unseen and unheard by human beings. It is unique in the New Testament, but not the ancient world… The Revelation has two focuses: Secrets of the cosmos and secret of the future. Secrets are revealed in order to present a particular interpretation of the times and to persuade the hearers or readers to think and live in a certain way.
Sa nasambit natin sa itaas, mapapansin natin na ang Revelation ay may maraming interpretations batay na rin sa bumabasa.
Atin pong talakayin ang Revelation Chapter 12 na basihan sa iyong katanungan.
Kay ALBER HUNNI is Santa Maria ang Rev. 12:1; sa DOUAY RHIMES VERSION (St. Joseph Edition) hindi si Santa Maria ang Revelation 12. Makikita po natin na para pong contradict ang statement ng dalawa (o masasabi ng iba na contrary talaga ang dalawa). Peru bakit po sinabi natin na parang contradict ang dalawa? Narito ang kasagutan:
Dapat nating malaman na ang Revelation 12:1 ay isang fusion imagery o ang topiko ng Revelation ay may maraming kahulugan at nakadependi ito sa History, Phrase, Sentence, Context, at Interpretation ng mambabasa (Ang reference ay nasa itaas).
Narito ang nakasaad sa Rev. 12:1-2 (KJV) “And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars: {12:2} And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.”
Ang interpretation ng dalubhasa sa Biblia tungkol sa woman ng Rev. 12:1 ay:
1. Israel = Mic. 4:9-10; Isa. 66:7; Gen. 37:9–11
2. Eve = she is part of the three-way conflict also involving her Seed and the Dragon, who is identified with the ancient serpent (the one from Eden) in 20:2. This mirrors the conflict in Genesis 3:15 between Eve, the serpent, and her unborn seed—which in turn is a symbol of the conflict between Mary, Satan, and Jesus. (from James Akin of Catholic Answer)
3. Church = because, as Rev. 12:17 tells us, “the rest of her offspring” are those who bear witness to Jesus, making them Christians. from James Akin of Catholic Answer)
4. Mary (Mother of Jesus) = Revelation 11:19- 12:1 it is Mary the Ark of New Covenant
Narito ang mga sumusonod na references:
Holy Bible- Douay Rheims Version, Page 295 –Apocalypse 12:1 Footnote -“A woman. The Church of God. It may also, by allusion, be applied to our blessed Lady. The church with the sun, that is, with Christ. She hath the moon, that is, the changeable things of the world, under her feet: and the twelve stars with which she is crown, are the twelve apostles: She is in labor and pain, whilst she brings forth her children, and Christ in them, in the midst of afflictions and persecutions.
The New Testament of the New American Bible, Page 626- Revelation 12: 1f. 4-6 Notes: “The Woman adorned with the sun, the moon, and the starts symbolized God’s people in the Old and New Testament; Gn 37, 9f. The Israel of old gave birth to Messiah (v 5) and then became the New Israel, the church, which suffers persecution by the dragon (vv 6:13-17).
Biblia sa Kristohanong Katilingban (Christian Community Bible) Page 485- Revelation 12 Notes: “Ang babaye nagpasabot sa katawhan nga mitabang sa plano sa Diyos, si Maria nga nanganak kang Jesus; siya ang simbahan nga “mikagiw sa disyerto”, sa ato pa, nagkinabuhing espirituhanong layo sa kalibutan, apan giamoma sa pulong sa Diyos panahon sa panglutos. TAGALOG: “Ang babae (ibigsabihin) ay ang mamamayang tomulong sa plano ng Diyos, Si Maria na nagluwal kay Jesus; siya ang simbahan na pumunta (tumongo) sa disyerto, ibigsabihin ay nabubuhay sa espiritual (spiritual way of living) na malayo sa pansanlibutan na buhay (masasamang bagay), peru inaalagaan ng Diyos sa panahon ng kagipitan.”
Revelation a Divine Message of Hope by: Fr. Bruce Vawter, CM. ((Catholic Information Service, Knights of Columbus Supreme Council, New Haven CT 06521-1971)) – (Imprimatur John F. Whealon, Archbishop of Hartford) Page 44 à “The first sign is “a woman clothed with the sun; with the moon beneath her feet and the twelve starts in a crown about her head. As we see from the complete description of this woman (12:1-2, 5-6), she is both the Church and the Mother of the Messiah. The Church is presented both glorified and in her period of trial, all at once… The Child to whom the woman gives birth in v.5 is certainly Jesus, as He is describe in the messianic language of Psalm 2:9.
Conclusion:
Kaya kung ang buong chapter sa Revelation 12 ang pagbabatayan natin iyan po ay hindi kay Santa Maria lamang nakabasi o nakatoon peru kung pagbabasihan natin ang Literal na ina ni Cristo na nag panganak sa kanya hindi rin mali na e-apply natin ang Revelation 12:1 kay Santa Maria.
Ngayon alin po jan ang totoo? ang sabi ng pari sa aklat nio na virgin mary ang bab sa revelation 12:1
o sa catholic bible ng douay rhimes version na hindi raw si virgin marry ang babae sa revelation 12:!?
Alin ba ang totoo sa dalawa ang Pari ba (ALBER HUNNI) o ang CONFRATERNITY-DOUAY VERSION? Pareho pong totoo ang dalawa SAPAGKAT KUNG TATAPOSIN LANG NATIN ANG PAGBASA SA FOOTNOTE NG CONFRATERNITY-DOUAY VERSION GANITO ANG NAKALAGAY:
CONFRATERNITY-DOUAY VERSION, PAGE 272- REVELATION 12:1 FOOTENOTE: A woman: this woman is not the Blessed Virgin, for the details of the prophecy do not fit her. The prophesy pictures the Church of the Old and New Covenants. The beams of the divine glory clothe her, the moon is beneath her feet, she is crowned with a crown of twelve stars, and she must bring forth Christ to the world. By accommodation the church applies this verse to the Blessed Virgin.
Samakatuwid nais ng may akda ng CONFRATERNITY-DOUAY VERSION na hindi lamang dapat nakatoon ang pagkakaintindi (ng mga Katoliko) sa Revelation 12:1 kay Santa Maria sapagkat ang pinag-uusapan na “BABAE” sa boung chapter 12 ng Revelation ay hindi ni SANTA MARIA naka sentro.
Nasagutan po ang inyong tanong.
Salamat
delaacecruz said
G One:
How about my questions above? Can you answer them too?
delaacecruz said
by the way G:One:
A blog Philans57 joined the fray with my discussion with
Mr. talibong in his blogsite. However, Philans57 did not
posit any argument, instead turning himself as a cheer leader.
Is G:One and Philans57 one person? if you are Philans G:One,
let’s resume our discussion here about the issue that we
talked about in Mr. talibong’s blogsite. I already threw you
several questions there but i haven’t got a reply. here, i feel
comfortable in writing my answers compared to the one-line message box in Mr. talibong’s blogsite. Are you?
delaacecruz said
To G: One:
it also appeared that you just translated the English reply
of Jokring above to Tagalog. I made several observations
about Jokring’s reply which you adopted.
delaacecruz said
to Paul:
Reading the book you suggested would not still solve the
controversy since if you want to argue the author’s
explanation, he is not there to answer you. The best way
to settle the score concerning this conflict is right here right now. An on line exchange of arguments. A battle of attrition right
here in the CFD Website, the frontrunner of defending the
catholic faith. I just wondering why the CFD takes the burden
of defending the faith instead of the priests and the bishops.
MMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!! maybe, the priests and bishops are so
busy in their collection job.
delaacecruz said
G: One,
let’s talk about christ dual nature since you are fresh from
a debate about christ diety.
unlike nestorious who believed that christ has two separate beings, the catholic church believes that he is a complete being both god and man. when christ said in matthew that he didn’t know the hour and day of his return, was his godhead was left somewhere else? or he was still a god and the same time human contain in a single being?
delaacecruz said
by the way G:One, before you answer my questions about
christ diety, don’t forget to answer my queries on
the conflict between the priest’s interpretation of Revelation and your own bible commentary. Okidoki!
catholicfaithdefender said
January 29, 2009 at 2:58 pm e
by the way G:One, before you answer my questions about
christ diety, don’t forget to answer my queries on
the conflict between the priest’s interpretation of Revelation and your own bible commentary. Okidoki!
REPLY:
DELA CRUZ I had been replied the Revelation 12….
you read it in:
catholicfaithdefender said
New comment on your post #110 “Catholic Faith Defenders Vs. Iglesia ni Cristo Debate”
Author : delaacecruz (IP: 121.97.191.193 , 121.97.191.193.BTI.NET.PH)
E-mail : delaacecruz@yahoo.com
URL :
Whois : http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=121.97.191.193
Comment:
To G: One:
it also appeared that you just translated the English reply
of Jokring above to Tagalog. I made several observations
about Jokring’s reply which you adopted.
REPLY:
Jokring is the one who asking the question, and I am answering it….
catholicfaithdefender said
New comment on your post #110 “Catholic Faith Defenders Vs. Iglesia ni Cristo Debate”
Author : delaacecruz (IP: 121.97.191.193 , 121.97.191.193.bti.net.ph)
E-mail : delaacecruz@yahoo.com
URL :
Whois : http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=121.97.191.193
Comment:
to Paul:
Reading the book you suggested would not still solve the
controversy since if you want to argue the author’s
explanation, he is not there to answer you. The best way
to settle the score concerning this conflict is right here right now. An on line exchange of arguments. A battle of attrition right
here in the CFD Website, the frontrunner of defending the
catholic faith. I just wondering why the CFD takes the burden
of defending the faith instead of the priests and the bishops.
MMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!!!!! maybe, the priests and bishops are so
busy in their collection job.
REPLY:
We do our job without any single centavos paid us by our Priest and Bishops, because like them we Catholic Faith Defenders know the truth and must share this truth in all people.
Bishops and Priest were busy and there office are for teaching..etc.. (with a minor percentage of arguing). So as Catholic lay and Part of the Body of Christ, we Catholic Faith Defenders have duties to defend and teach lay people in the fundamental doctrine of Catholic Church.
Bro, alam namin ang katotohanan kaya kami ay may mission na magtoro at domipinsa sa Catholic Faith kahit na wala kaming sahod na matatanggap sa mga pari…
delaacecruz said
To CFD:
You said that priests and bishops are so busy. Oh common man, tell that do the marines. Priests assigned in different parishes wake up in the morning to celebrate mass from 4 am to 7:am. After that, they just rest the entire day. They only get busy during the months of April and May where there are lots of fiestas. For the bishops, tell me, what makes the bishop busy the entire day aber?
Another point, is it not that the apostles were in the forefront of defending christ’s faith. They never cowed in any argumentation and they never tired in their work of professing their faith. The priests and bishops said they are vicars of christ, therefore, they should be in the front not in the back.
I will submit that the underling like you should learn the faith of your overlord. However, when those who claimed to be the direct representatives of christ don’t have the nerve to do your job, then they don’t deserve to go to men’s room.
Lastly, why is it that the Catholic Church did not assign priests to solely do your job or to work with you side by side in a debate? The answer is simple: They give less priority to your ministry. How many CFDs doing concenterted efforts in answering questions in this website? Do you have different offices nationwide, equip with computers and servers monitoring this website, which is financed by the Church? Tell me? The truth is you work individually or in few groups.
If you, as a layman does your homework for the faith, the more priests and bishops are obliged to do the same. It’s their primary job to defend their faith.
Why is it that other religions have the time to do their primordial work defending their faith?
You explain!
by the way, don’t forget to answer my questions about the issue brought up by Mr Abalos concerning the conflict between the duoay and the priest’s commentary.
catholicfaithdefender said
Many Bishops promoting apologetics…
We defend the Catholic Faith because it is in the Bible and it in Code of Canon Law…
We know the truth so we must preach it in to the whole world!!!
delaacecruz said
I mean concerted not concenterted
delaacecruz said
to CFD:
You said in your blog number 43 above, you already answered my questions. Read my comments in blog number 32 above and tell if your reply answered my questions in blog 32.
delaacecruz said
to CFD:
You said in your blog number 43 above, you already answered my questions. Read my comments in blog number 32 above and tell me if your reply answered my questions in blog 32.
catholicfaithdefender said
I had already answered those question regarding Revelation 12:1….
delaacecruz said
To CFD:
For all intents and purposes, i reposted my blog 32 and im asking everyone, who view this site to compare it to CFD’s reply in blog 36 and tell me whether or not his reply is reponsive to my questions and rebuttals.
I find your answer very interesting. However, there are some points you need to clarify.
(1) You mentioned different school of thoughts in interpreting Revelation. In fact, you mentioned at least four ways on how to understand it: PRETEST, HISTORICAL, FUTURIST AND SYMBOLIC.
Are you suggesting that in every verses or chapters in revelation, there is always at least four possible interpretations based on the school of thoughts that you aforementioned above?
TO CFD: (WHERE IS YOUR ANSWER ON THIS QUESTION IN BLOG 36 HA?)
(2) If the Bible is inspired by God, and He is not the source of confusion, since it is possible that there are conflicting interpretations as result of your proposed adherence to the different school of thoughts, did God authorize or intend it to be that way?
TO CFD: (WHERE IS YOUR ANSWER ON THIS QUESTION IN BLOG 36 HA?)
(3) Concerning the conflict between the catholic bible commentaries and the priest’s interpretation, you said that duoay Rhiems commentary just suggested that one should not center his interpretations on the symbolic but also to the literal meaning.
TO CFD: (WHERE IS YOUR ANSWER ON THIS QUESTION IN BLOG 36 HA?)
However, i see that your aesthetic spin doctoring is an understatment if not misleading. Observed the unambiguous comments of the duoay in your quote above.
It says: “A woman: this woman is not the Blessed Virgin, for the details of the prophecy do not fit her. The prophesy pictures the Church of the Old and New Covenants”
The commentary was so categorical. It does not say that it is not Mary based on the symbolic meaning. It didn’t even bother to put a caution sign that the verse implies other interpretations.
on the contrary, it makes a simple declarative sentence, so assertive, saying “it’s not mary because the details of the prohecy do not fit her.” If it does not fit, then don’t make it fit.
TO CFD: (WHERE IS YOUR ANSWER ON THIS QUESTION IN BLOG 36 HA?)
THINK AGAIN MR CFD. You are ignoring and ducking my rebuttals and questions.
catholicfaithdefender said
New comment on your post #110 “Catholic Faith Defenders Vs. Iglesia ni Cristo Debate”
Author : delaacecruz (IP: 121.97.191.193 , 121.97.191.193.bti.net.ph)
E-mail : delaacecruz@yahoo.com
URL :
Whois : http://ws.arin.net/cgi-bin/whois.pl?queryinput=121.97.191.193
Comment:
To CFD:
For all intents and purposes, i reposted my blog 32 and im asking everyone, who view this site to compare it to CFD’s reply in blog 36 and tell me whether or not his reply is reponsive to my questions and rebuttals.
I find your answer very interesting. However, there are some points you need to clarify.
(1) You mentioned different school of thoughts in interpreting Revelation. In fact, you mentioned at least four ways on how to understand it: PRETEST, HISTORICAL, FUTURIST AND SYMBOLIC.
Are you suggesting that in every verses or chapters in revelation, there is always at least four possible interpretations based on the school of thoughts that you aforementioned above?
ANSWER:
Many of the verses of Revelation contains four possible interpretations, but not all…
Example of this is Rev. 12:… this chapter has many interpretation..
jason abalos said
may tanong aq sa inyo na hindi pa nasasagot… bat tahimik na kayo sa website na ito
catholicfaithdefender said
(2) If the Bible is inspired by God, and He is not the source of confusion, since it is possible that there are conflicting interpretations as result of your proposed adherence to the different school of thoughts, did God authorize or intend it to be that way?
ANSWER:
The final interpreter of the Bible is the Catholic Church-the owner of the Bible….
Man’s interpretation is fallible.
Catholic church is the Final interpreter of the Bible….
catholicfaithdefender said
(3) Concerning the conflict between the catholic bible commentaries and the priest’s interpretation, you said that duoay Rhiems commentary just suggested that one should not center his interpretations on the symbolic but also to the literal meaning.
ANSWER:
this is a fallacy of presumption!
There is no conflict between the catholic bible commentaries and the priest’s interpretation…
Pls read my reply to the said topic…
catholicfaithdefender said
However, i see that your aesthetic spin doctoring is an understatment if not misleading. Observed the unambiguous comments of the duoay in your quote above.
It says: “A woman: this woman is not the Blessed Virgin, for the details of the prophecy do not fit her. The prophesy pictures the Church of the Old and New Covenants”
The commentary was so categorical. It does not say that it is not Mary based on the symbolic meaning. It didn’t even bother to put a caution sign that the verse implies other interpretations.
on the contrary, it makes a simple declarative sentence, so assertive, saying “it’s not mary because the details of the prohecy do not fit her.” If it does not fit, then don’t make it fit.
ANSWER:
Pls read my post regarding this topic..
Kung binasa mo pa nang maigi ang reply ko satanong na ito, hindi kana magtatanong….
delaacecruz said
Many bishops promoting apologetics.
really! name me a bishop in the philippines, who has been debating with other religions?
How about priests? name me priests who are currently engaging in apologetic campaign defending the catholic faith at every fronts?
But unfortunately for you, their number is just less than your five fingers. In fact, it’s the laymen who maintain this website, not priests and bishops.
Tell the people, how many priests and bishops blogging this website helping you to defend your faith. You are not even a priest, and you want people to believe that they give so much importance to your cause.
Did they help you build this website aber?
You said you defend the faith because it’s in the bible. Aha, then is it not that in the bible the apostles, the direct vicar of christ, were on top of the helm in defending their faith.
How about the priests and bishops are they at the forefront of the battle just like the apostles? I hope you will answer this question. Instead of posting answer again as if you’re like pre-programmed telephone operator.
catholicfaithdefender said
Bishops help Catholic Faith Defenders and all Catholic Apologetics group through prayers and others…
Bernadette said
I agree. Bishops and priests are getting fewer and fewer so they are busy and the greatest contribution they can give the Catholic Faith Defender is thru prayer (especially the rosary)- the greatest power on earth (source: Pieta)
I salute the Catholic Faith Defenders for defending the Catholic doctrines amidst accusations and hate campaigns from other non – Catholic sects who (most of them) doesn’t know how to respect other persons’ religion.
May God Bless you more Catholic Faith Defender!
delaacecruz said
To CFD:
My blog 32, rebutted your blog 36’s reply, which is similar to the english version in blog 30. in my blog 32, i posited fresh questions which you did not answer.
catholicfaithdefender said
The questions regarding Revelation 12, had already answered…
jason abalos said
hindi pa po ito nasasagot..
tsaka kung totoo tlga ang roman catholic,bakit nio nagawang mandaya sa debate sa bohol noong august 5 2006 between INC[ramil parba] vs CFD[mr.talibong na mapapanuod nio rin sa youtube [ang tamang daan cebu].
na kung saan dinaya ng iglesia katolika binago ang sitas ng biblia sa mateo 16:18 saling confraternity version na lalo pang napatunayan ng mayroon din dalang confraternity version ang INC at ng pinaghambing ang dalawa ay parehong pareho ang biblia imprimatur [spellman]. ng basahin na sa mateo 16:18 sa biblia ng CFD na confraternity ang nkalagay …..i will build my holy roman catholic apostolic church.. ng sa INC nmn ng basahin sa mateo 16:18 sa confraternity din ang nkalagay lng ay …. i will build my church!..
ngayon ng ipasuri sa moderator ang confraternity bible ng ng mga tiga CFD ay halatang halata na makapal ang papel at iba ang kulay ng buong pahina ng mateo 16:18 at pinabago sa printing press ang sitas..
ngayon sa unang tayo palang nahuli na ang mga tiga CFD tpos na nga ang debate kaya lng sayang nmn kung di ipagpapatuloy ang debate kahit ganun ang nangyari..
ngayon sa mga tiga CFD,pede nio ba ipakita ang buong pangyayari sa nasabing debate between INC vs CFD jan sa bohol august 5 2006?
siguro nmn mayroon kayong video nian..paki upload nmn yung buo pra wala nmn masabi ang mga tumutuligsa sa inyo sa iglesia katolika pra malinaw ang lahat.
regards….
jason abalos said
prang iniiwasan ata sagutin tong tanong ko po..
Philans57CFD said
Nasagot kona ang tanong mo Mr. Abalos…
Philans57CFD said
Bro…
Hindi nandaya ang CFD sa debate sa bohol… kung gusto mo ulitin natin ang debate….
jason abalos said
pede nio po ba ipaliwanag na ndi kayu po nandaya sa debate?
di ba nag request po aq ng video sa inyo sa nasabing debate? di ba meron po kayo nun?
Philans57CFD said
Jason Abalos,
Bro.. wala akong kopya sa debate ni Parba at Talibong (sa ngayon).
Nankalagay yon sa Bible, at tatlong Biblia ang alam kong ganoon ang nakalagay…
Kung hindi ka naniniwala na hindi kami nandaya.. pwdi ulitin natin ang debate…
jason abalos said
Philans57CFD: paki kumbinsi mu nga aq na wala tlgang dayaan sa debate between inc vs cfd? ang labo kasi eh…. ang linaw eh!!!!
patunayan po muna ninyo na walang daya un,tsaka ulit mag debate!
ang linaw eh parehong confraternity tpos walang daya?!
paki sagot nmn ng maayos oh…
regards….
catholicfaithdefender said
Bro,
Walang daya dahil hindi lahat ng Confraternity Bible ay mag ka tulad…
Example: May confraternity Bible na Douay
May Confraternity Bible na NAB
Sa mga Bible ng Catolico na spanish may pag kakaiba rin… peru iisang version…
Sa Latin vulgate ay ganon rin, siguro may apat na klasi ng Latin Vulgate na Bible…
jason abalos said
Bro,
Walang daya dahil hindi lahat ng Confraternity Bible ay mag ka tulad…
Example: May confraternity Bible na Douay
May Confraternity Bible na NAB
Sa mga Bible ng Catolico na spanish may pag kakaiba rin… peru iisang version…
Sa Latin vulgate ay ganon rin, siguro may apat na klasi ng Latin Vulgate na Bible…
answer:
oh sabi mo “May confraternity Bible na Douay
May Confraternity Bible na NAB
tanong: jan sa sabi mo na may confraternity biblie na douay at confraternity bible na NAB,ang nakasulat ba jan sa Mateo 16:18 ay HOLY ROMAN CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHRUCH??? PAKI SAGOT
at pagnapatunayan ko na wala tlga mababasa jan sa confraternity na pinagsasabi mo,tatanggapin mu bang nandaya tlga kayo sa debate???
at tungkol sa debate between cfd vs inc dun sa bohol na nangyari nga nun august 2006 tlgang tinatanggi mong di kayo nandaya?
e bakit nga moderator na nagpasiya na nandaya nga kayo sinuri nga parehong dalang confraternity eh PAREHONG PAREHO nga eh!!! eh kung di nga yon pareho sana sinabi ng moderator na magkaiba ang parehong bible na confraternity tpos sabihin na ndi kayo nandaya.. eh daya tlga eh…
wag sana kayo magalit mga cfd pero nakikita ko sa inyo na puro nalang kayo palusot eh.. kung baga butata na! humihirit pa! haysss
siguro nmn kilala nio si talibong na cfd db? sabi kasi sakin nung isa nio kasamahan cfd nakay talibong raw ang video ng debate.
baka nmn pede nio kausapin si talibong malapit nmn cia sa inyo eh.. ilabas nia ung video ng debate dun sa bohol {talibong {cfd} vs ramil parba{inc}} para nmn malaman rin ng mga tao rito kung may daya nga o wala. im sure! di nio ilalabas yan.
catholicfaithdefender said
Bro jason abalos,
Bakit mo ba ipinipilit na nandaya ang CFD sa debate sa bohol??
At sinabi mopa na “bakit nga moderator na nagpasiya na nandaya nga kayo sinuri nga parehong dalang confraternity eh PAREHONG PAREHO nga eh!!””
May ebedensya kaba na sinabi ng moderator yon???
Ang totoo na sinabi ng moderator ay taliwas sa sinabi mo…..
Ang Confraternity version ni brad wendell ay hindi tampered…
at ano ba ang gusto mo jason abalos?? kung hindi ka naniniwala sa resolta ng debate… abay ulitin natin ang debate…
ano payag kaba na tayo ang mag dedebate???
Ang tema na pag dedebatihan natin ay ganon rin sa pinagdedebatihan nila Parba at wendell…
payag ka??
jason abalos said
to: cfd, bakit wala na pong sumagsagot sa tanong ko sa website na ito,cfd kayo db?
male99q said
Hmm ang una talagang religion for christ is Catholic. Yong galing sa apostles then pumunta sila sa Rome bakit rome? at that time kasi powerful ang rome subra. Nong na convert ang Rome ayon na ang Roman Catholic.
Syempre, Roman catholic is steal has a human part. Us. We commit sin. In effect of that sin may umalis yong protestant. (please see history on Medieval times).
Tapos yong protestant nag ka watak watak may anglican, presbeterian etc….
Nag ka watak watak kasi naniwala ang isa na tama siya ang isa din feeling tama siya. So yon watak watak hiwalay.
Okay I admit maraming teaching noon sa catholic church na mali or not suited for the signs of time like the limbo etc. Peru tinama niya eto as time passess by. So marami na siyang an correct.
Peru yong mga bago dyan, paano na? bago palang kayo, so marami kayong mali mali na isip nyo na tama peru as time passes by babaguhin niyo rin kasi mali.
To be safe and sure sa Catholic an ako kasi it is already near perfection and kayo mga small sects dyan , cults or small groups. Bago palang kayo.
Bantay din kayo kasi ang best na business is to create a religious group kasi walang bayad tax.
Magaling ka mang pursuade or magaling ka man luko kasi magaling ka mag debate , yayaman ka. Please check the history of your group.
banson said
I agree with this post… Sana suriin din ng mga INC ang biography o lifestory ng kanilang lider na si Felix Manalo…. Diba palipat lipat siya ng religion…. So yon ang klasi ng taong walang direksyon sa buhay, confused, at dinadamay ang ibang tao sa kanyang kalituhan…
Ang problema kasi ng INC ay humiram lang sa bibliya ng mga Katoliko ay binago pa. Okay lang kung humiram basta hindi lang baluktotin ang katotohanan.
male99q said
Just get the whole point not the sentence baloktot kasi. Sorry.. sorry din sa harsh words ko minsan. di ko na ma edit eh. Peru please get the whole point.
Division = evil
Addition = God
Bernadette said
I strongly agree with this post. Satan is using division to conquer the Catholic Church.
Bernadette said
P.S.
Not only division but sowing confusion too
MALE99Q said
Bakit nawal yong sinulat ko dito? sino nag delete?
catholicfaithdefender said
hindi nawala ang mga comments mo bro, hindi palang po namin na e-aprove
catholicfaithdefender said
Bro male99q,
Salamat sa Commento mo sa site namin,
tungkol naman sa sinasabi mong Limbo, ang doctrinang iyan ay isa lamang opinion ng mga Catholic Theologian at hindi isang official na turo ng Santa Iglesia Catolica….
Salamat
Gerick said
catholic defender,, salamat sa lahat ng mga post mo,, i strongly agree with ur posts,, and i am very confused of the religion cause, my girlfriend is a inc,, ur thoughts helps me alot and God has heard my prayers,,
cattleya said
tanung koh lng poh.,bkit kelangan pang pag.debatehan kung sino ang tama?kung alin tlaga ang totoo?.,well kung ayaw maniwala eh d wag gawin.,isa pah.,balewala dn nmn kung magdebate kyo jan eh.,bkit?maliligtas bah kyo kung magdedebate kyo kung sino ang tama?.,bkit?alam nyo bah tlga kung sino ang tama?.,wag poh kyo magmagaling at magmalinis din kc khit ang mga mabubuting tao nagkakasala dn poh.,khit anung sabihin nyo.,iisa lng yung sinasamba ntin.,ibaiba nga lng ng paniniwala.,iisa lng ang bibliya ntin.,kung ano ang nakasult doon yun ang sundin.,naalala nyo bah yung cnabi ni Jesus kay mary nah kapatid ni martha?.,
sa katoliko kc.,my mga saints kmi nah my experiences ng apparitions ni Mary at Jesus.,ibinahagi nila sa amin kung anu ang nakitah nila at narinig.,kya my mga rebulto kmi kya lng d nmn ibig sabihin dn nun yun ang sinasamba nmn.,
isa pah.,balewala lhat ng bagay-bagay.,hindi ang relihiyon ang makakapagligtas sa tao kundi ang pananampalataya at katapatan kay God.,ang pagtalikod sa mga kasalanan…
cyril said
kung ang sinasabi mong iisa ang paniniwala nating lahat, sa freemasonry yan na doktrina. we have one God but because of the way people interpret it, they named it as their own. ang totoo, ang God of Israel ang totoong God at si Jesus ay God. Hindi cla naniwala so ung iba naniwala sa mga maling aral ni Martin Luther.
protestants were rooted from martin luther and look what he contribute? millions of people were deceived..and look who’s next? it could be you if you don’t stand firm about the real truth…
just share…
gigi said
For those who question the name of the Catholic religion, KNOW THIS: There was only one christian church then, before others turned away from the mother church, di binibigyang pansin ang particular term kasi nga iisa lang e, kaya nga UNIVERSAL church lang yang tinawag dati kasi wala pang Protestants nun at INC at iba pa sa branches ng Kristyanismo… Dun na nagsimula ang mga titles nung may humiwalay na… at ang medyo BOLD mangtugis yung iba dun sa mother church kasi nga gustong tibagin ang original ng mga pirata…
DELAACECRUZ, bishops, priests are not really into debates, kasi nakalagay kasi ika nga, the more you speak, the more na vulnerable ka sa sin, …
To all anti Catholic people, Kung si Father Corapi lang din ang madedebate nyo, nakakaawa kayong lahat na mga restless Catholic attackers, i guess waste of time lang… Madaming matitinding Catholic authorities kapatid, si St Augustine, matinding defender yun… By the way, the apostles resolved this long long before. after nilnag pinahayag (nakasulat dun sa bible yung mga naencounter nila’t nakipagdiskusyon sa kanila ay they would describe it) they advised the church to stop doing senseless conversations to those makukulit at walang sense ng tamang pang-unawa… Galing yan sa katataas taasan kapatid… Kaya sana maiintindihan ninyo na iwas sa debate ang may mga katungkulan sa simbahang katolika…
I am just an ordinary person and will defend my church righteously… I pray to GOD, we all be united once again, if not now, soon… I do not condemn any religion, may we just live as one…
naruto said
@ gigi i agree on you.. hope may unity tayo ulit iisa lang ang diyos natin lahat tayo maliligtas basta may paniniwala at pananampalataya tayo sa diyos. kahit mga nagkasala dun din naman ang punta. discipline is need to us to bring back unity on our religion.
delaacecruz said
Now i can say that there is really GOD and his true founded church. . THE HOLY CATHOLIC APOSTOLIC CHURCH. . .
jason abalos said
to: delaacecruz bakit wala na pong sumagsagot sa tanong ko sa website na ito,cfd kayo db?
jhong said
falsetruth naman ung sa inyo ehh!!
cyril said
now you know..
jason abalos said
ano
Catholic Faith said
Kung gusto mong magtanong, lahat ng tanong mo AY AKING SASAGUTIN………………….. isa akong katoliko at iginagalang ko ang relibhiyon ng bawat isa,… pero sa mga nabasa ko sa iyo…… hindi naman na makatuwiranm na siraan mo ang lahat ng mga katoliko……………..
i-email mo ang lahat ng iyong mga katanungan at ang lahat ng iyan ay lakas loob kong sasagutin…………… sa ngayon.. puro galit ang nasa puso mo para sa BANAL NA ROMANA KATOLIKA AT APOSTOLIKONG SIMBAHAN…..
isang sagot……… wala sa biblia ang salitang”IGLESI NI CRISTO” mga maling salin ang ipinakalat ng mga tao… dahil ang salita na para sa cristo na griego na “cristo” ay hindi lumitaw sa pangungusap na “alagaan ninyo ang iglesi ni cristo” bagkus ang salitang “theon” ang tunay na lumabas na nangangahulugan na “Diyos” KAYA ANG TAMANG PANGUNGUSAP AY “iglesia ng Diyos”
kung mapupunta sa impeyrno ang mga hindi nabinyagan sa INC…. ano ang nangyari sa mga magulang ni Felix? hindi ba sila naligtas? at maging si Felix ay hindi nabinyagan ng sarili niyang sekta… kung totoo ang lahat ng kanyang mga sinsabi… sino ang unang mapupunta sa impeyrno??? ang isyu ng dugo? trinidad? lahat ay aking sasagutin sa saligan ng biblia, banal na taradisyon at ng simbahang katoliko….
sabihin mo sa mga kaibigan mo na itanong na ang lahat ng tanong, pero tuparin mo ang iyong ipinangako na kung mapapatunayan ko… ehhh… magpapaconvert ka sa IGLESYA ROMANA KATOLIKA….
ang mga sinabi ko ay pahapyaw lamang…………
R3d4l3rt said
The proof of the pudding is in the eating. Sadly the author is contented to some subjective views instead of putting the audio of the debate here to enlighten people. Is the debate anointed these people to be the official judge? INC has never been defeated in public debates.
catholicfaithdefender said
pag sure oi????? panahon pa na ni mampor imong atik2x
catholicfaithdefender said
To: R3d4l3rt and to all INC
Para ma enlighten lahat ng tao ay ilagay ninyo ang link ng audio o video kung kini-claim ninyo na panalo kayo sa lahat ng debate na sinalihan ninyo… Ang problema kasi ninyong mga INC ay nagbubuhat kayo ng sarili ninyong bangko…. Nabago nyu lang ang laman at pagkakaintindi ninyo sa bibliya ay nagmamayabang na kayo…. Dapat ninyong isipin na ang founder ninyo ay minsan naging Katoliko….
Tanong ko sa ninyo… “Bakit ngaba palipat-lipat ng ibang relihiyon ang inyong founder na si Felix Manalo? At nung nagsawa na siya ay nag tatag ng kanyang sariling relihiyon… Siguro ay napagtanto niya na malaki ang makukuhang pera sa pagtatag ng bagong relihiyon…
Pls. reply….
cyril said
anung never defeated???s2ryaha imung lolo…
bsin always defeated….lol
Panalo lang sila sa apelyido ng founder nila..lol
they can never win the truth..
jason abalos said
parang nanahimik ang mga tiga cfd d2 ahh…
catholicfaithdefender said
Ang problema kasi ninyong mga INC ay nagbubuhat kayo ng sarili ninyong bangko…. Nabago nyu lang ang laman at pagkakaintindi sa bibliya ng mga katoliko ay nagmamayabang na kayo…. Dapat ninyong isipin na ang founder ninyo ay minsan naging Katoliko….
Tanong ko sa ninyo… “Bakit ngaba palipat-lipat ng ibang relihiyon ang inyong founder na si Felix Manalo? At nung nagsawa na siya ay nag tatag ng kanyang sariling relihiyon… Siguro ay napagtanto niya na malaki ang makukuhang pera sa pagtatag ng bagong relihiyon… Siguro inggit lang ang founder ninyo sa mga pari namin na maraming pera at gusto nya ring yumaman… kung toto-usin mga manalo lang naman ang yumayaman…
Sayo Jason Abalos, cguro tamad kang mag rosaryo kaya nagin INC no?
Reply pls….
catholicfaithdefender said
Basahin mo to…. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felix_Manalo
magpapa convert ako kung may matitinding sagot ka sa mga tanong ko…..
jason abalos said
sa mga tiga cfd… i have a question…
lahat ba ng mga aral sa roman catholic chruch ay pawang nakabase lahat sa biblia? ung mga aral nio ba ay sa biblia ninyo kinukuha?
yan lang po.
Julius said
sa bibliya kinuha kasi ang CATHOLIC CHURCH naman ang gumawa ng bibliya…
tokmok said
yup lahat. Tapos hindi naman lahat nasa biblia lang ah. Di lahat nang aral nandyan lang biblia.
jeoff said
Pareng Jason,
I just happened to surf this site.I’m also a Catholic and believed that it is the true Church not because I was born a Catholic but because I am convinced.
The basis of catholic faith is the Holy bible and Holy Tradition(i.e.,teachings of the apostles, passed by word of mouth,from the earliest times up to now). Before the bible was written, there was already the tradition. Then they (the apostles and later their successors-you may search on the works of the fathers of the Church)thought that it would be better to write those teachings,so it won’t be forgotten..then came the bible.
And so, the answer to your question is YES…What the Church does (The Magisterium)is to expand those teachings (both in the bible and tradition).The Church does not make new doctrines.God’s revelation ended with the death of St. John The Apostle..And as Jesus promised, the Holy Spirit guides the Church so it won’t go astray from the teachings laid down by Christ.
Thank you.
catholicfaithdefender said
Ikaw Jason Abalos ka… paminsan-minsan ang mga tanong mo is out of topic… i’m just following your post…. sa tanong mong….
“lahat ba ng mga aral sa roman catholic chruch ay pawang nakabase lahat sa biblia? ung mga aral nio ba ay sa biblia ninyo kinukuha?”
Ang sagot ko ay malaking “OO”.. Dahil unang-una ang bibliya namin ay hindi binago at klarong klaro ang turo mula sa Old Testament to New Testament…. Ikaw tatanungin kita…”lahat ba ng mga aral sa INC ay pawang nakabase lahat sa biblia? may mga aral pabang makukuha sa bibliyang nabago na?
Juan dela mesa said
May napansin po ako sa mga INC sa estilo ng kanilang pagtatanong lalo na kung masagot ang mga ito. Ang kanilang estilo ng pmaratng ay basi lang sa kanuilang opinion o haka-haka at pawang panlilinlang sa mga tao.Ngayon, kung gamitin kaya natin sa akanila ang kanilang formula tingnan nga natin kung kaya nilang sagutin ito?
1. Sa bi nila ang papa ang 666 at iyan ay kanilang patunayan gamit ang bible. sa haba ng talak wala namang napatunayan… eh kung e-aply natin ito sa kanilang founder na si FELIX YSAGUN MANALO, pakipansin po ang unang pangala niay ay nasulat sa English, ito bay nagkataon lang o sinadya para itago ang kanayang tunay na pagkatao? kung itagalog kaya natin ang pangalang FELIX maging FELIKS O PELIKS YSAGUN MANALO kung bibilangin o sumahin natin ay lalabas na 666 o di ba? take note ayonn sa bible ay ang anti kristo ay makikilala sa bilang ng pangalan di ba? Kung sabagay inamin naman ni Manalo ito kasi sabi niya ang IBONG MANDARAGIT sa isiah, alam niyo ba? para sa mga israelita ang ibong mandaragit ay isang karumal dumal na hayop ang makahipo nito ay itinuturing na marumi ayon sa kaugalian ng mga hudyo…. at sumusimbulo sa demonyo… tama di ba?
2. Para sa kaalaman po nila ay ibong mandarigit ay si CIRO.HE! HE! galing no?
3. Sabi ng INC, sinabi daw ba ni cristo na tawaging Iglesia Katolika Aspostolika Romana ang kanyang tinayong iglisia? At saan daw mababasa sa bible and Iglisia Katolika Apostolika RoMana? ngayon gamitin ulit natin yong istilo nila sa pagtatanong:
a. Sinabi rin ba ni cristo na magtayo kayo ng sarili ninyong iglisia at tawaging iglisia ni cristo at saan mababasa sa bible ang pangalan ni manalo? at kung meron kahit middle name lang nya ay lilipat ako sa kanila..tama po ba?
4. Sabi ng INC si Panginoong hesus ay “the highest creation of God” Tapos sabi nila mas dakila o higit si manalo kay krsito kasi siya daw (manalo) ay anghel si kristo ay tao lang…ganun?! ang anghel ba ay hindi likha ng diyos? ang tindi ng logi nila ah…kakabilieve..matakot naman sana kayo sa diyos! Sabi ng panginoong hesus ” ako at ang ama ay iisa”, ang nakakita sa akin ay nakakita na sa ama… ang kumikilala sa akin ay kumikilala sa ama na nagsugo sa akin. ibig sabihin kung ano ang pagkakilala mo kay hesus ay siya ring pagkilala mo s diyos ama di po ba…sa madaling salita para sa kanila ang diyos ama ay tao rin lang tama ba yan ang logic nila. hahaha! mga sinungaling! sabi pa nga sa bible “ang demonyo ay naniniwala na may diyos at nangagsipanginig” sila di naniniwala na may diyos..it means masahol pa sila sa demonyo… ang pikon ay talo…pero yan ang totoo…salamat po.
Aegis-Judex said
The Holy Scripture itself admits that not everything we do is there… Jesus did more good than could be recorded, hence we also have the Apostolic Traditions.
Julius said
INC ang founder nila ay si MANALO… may kaso naman yon na IMMORALITY… proven guilty!
mysterious said
irespeto na lng po natn ang paniniwala ng ibang religion.
ndi nyo na po kailangang mag-away dahil iba-iba nmn po ang paniniwala ng mga tao.
nsa tao na rin po un qng ano ang gusto nyang paniwalaan.
respetuhan na lng po siguro ang kailangan.
jhong said
gud pm!
b4 anythng else… pwede nyo bang sagutin ang fundamental question ???? as u, an iglesia ni cristo,
hu founded your church??? and does it founded by God???? or just by men???? you have said in some articles that felix manalo is the last messenger of God… what a claim !!!!if i know, you just claim it by ur own….
jason abalos said
wala ng nagcomento d2…di makaporma mga cfd d2..ibig bang sabihin nun ay tinalo ku na kayo?
rodrigo said
hai naku! marami ng atake ng atake at di pa nagsa2wa sa pagaatake sa mga CFD ni hindi nila binabasa yung mga naka post sa site na to tapos nagha2nap pa sila ng mga bagay na pwedi makasira sa catholic church upang matalo lang ang CFD at maproof na di church ang cathollic church, hindi naman kasi nila iniintindi o minsan o malamang ngte2ngang kawaali sila eh historicaly unang una ang catholic church sa lahat naman ehhhhh. at kung bibliya kayo ng bibliya lalo na ang translasyon na di ganu kilala at di nagagaling sa original na linguahe ng mga scriptures eh talagang magka2roon ng mga kalituhan gamitin naten ung mga authorized, marami pa namang translasyon ng bibliya na lumayo na ang kasinghulugan sa greek, aramaic at hebrew, tignan naten ung galing sa original text of scriptures. ah basta walang alinlangan tama ang katoliko kahit anu pa. ito lng po ang masa2bi ko.
grv said
anu? tlo ang inc sa debate sa dipolog
ipakita ngunga ang video.parng nilulu2 niu lng ang
resulta ahh.buti pa manuod nlang kayo sa you tube tungkol sa debate sa plaza miranda pareho lng ang tema nun sa dapilog.
ehh kinawawa nman ngang ksama nyu kya huwag kyu magmalaki ni isang beses hindi kyo nanalo sa INC.
grv said
(INC ang founder nila ay si MANALO… may kaso naman yon na IMMORALITY… proven guilty!)
may ebidensya kba tungkol sa sinasabi mo.bgo ka tumingin sa
iba tingnan m muna dumi sa paligid mo prang nakalimotan mo ata c padre damaso alam mo muna kung ano ang ibig sabihin q,nag aral kanaman cguro nang history.
THE CHOSEN said
SINUNGALING TALAGA KAYO. Pag naipakita ko dito ang decision ng korte tungkol sa sinasabi nyong kaso aaminin mo na sinungaling talaga kayo? Katuparan kayo ng nasa Juan 8:44.
catholicfaithdefender said
hindi po kami nagsisinungaling kung gusto po niyo ay ulitin natin ang debate
Mark Perez said
Ipakita niniyo ung video saka kmi maniniwala na natalo nyu nga ang INC sa debate….
luv said
Meron po ako nakilala sa hospital na isa lalake. Katoliko po sya at nahikayat nya na maging katoliko ang kanyang kasintahan pati po yun buong pamilya ng babae ay naging katoliko na. Ako po ay nagulat sa kuwento nya. Kasi ang buong akala ko po ay mga katoliko lang ang puwedeng mahikayat na maging INC. Puwede rin pala po maging katoliko ang dating INC. I’m just wondering po, bakit kaya masyado naka focus ang INC sa pag debate at mga aral ng iba sekta? just wondering po
Jason said
tanong ko lang po sana kung ano po yung reason nating mga katoliko kung bakit tayo sumasamba sa mga larawan o mga bagay na inukit lang ng tao. Diba po nasa bibliya na hindi dapat sumamba sa mga larawan?Anu po ang masasabi mo po dito?ito po yung mobile number ko 09058133421 at ito po yung address ko…Pandan, Tubigon, Bohol 6329
Jason said
Sana po masagot niyo po kasi bilang isang katoliko ay nalilito po ako kung bakit tayo sumasamba sa mga larawan eh?
jason abalos said
NAGHHNAP KC AQ MGA DEBATE NG INC VS CFD,PURO NAKIKITA Q EH,PURO PAGMAMALAKI NG CFD SA MARAMING GINAWA NILANG MGA SITE TUNGKOL D2 SA DEBATE DUN SA BOHOL AUGUST 5,2005 ATA UN BETWEEN KA RAMIL VS TALIBONG. NA KESO NILIMBOG NYO SIKA RAMIL,NATALO,NILAMPASO,KINAWAWA KUNG ANU ANO PA…AT MY MGA SITE PA NA SINASABI NA GANTO {WATCH THIS FULL DEBATE NILAMPASO NI MR TALIBON SI RAMIL PARBA} SOMETHING LIKE THAT..PAG KINICLICK MU NMN EH WALA NMN LAHAT PURO BLAP LANG!!!!!AT BKT PURO AUDIO LANG MARIRINIG MO NA HINDI PA MAINTINDIHAN DAHIL SA SOBRANG LABO NG SOUNDS!
NGAUN…SAN BA DUN SA DEBATE NA.. NILAMPASO.NATALO NYU ANG INC DUN SA DEBATE SA BOHOL? ALAM KO NMN KC NA MAY KAKILALA KNG CFD NA PEDE I UPLOAD UNG DEBATE NA UN..PARA MAKITA KO KUNG NALAMPASO NYU NGA KAME?..ANG TOTOO DB KAYO PA NGA ANG NANDAYA DUN? WAG KA NMN MAGALIT SANA…KAYA KUNG 22O UNG MGA SITE NA UN SA FULL VIDEO MAKIKITA UN DB? NDI SA AUDIO! SA MGA SITE NG MGA CFD NA PURO PAGMAMALAKI DB? DAPAT SA VIDEO..TSAKA SANA FAIR ANG PAG UUPLOAD..
KASI MAY ISANG TIGA CFD NAG UPLOAD SYA SA YOUTUBE KILALA MU CGURO UN c {Philans57CFD} inapload ang debate ng inc vs cfd ang title ba nmn ay CFD vs KINAWAWANG INC {MANALO} na kapag pinanuod lahat puro TINDIG NI SOC. FERNANDEZ LANG ANG MAPAPANUOD WALA INC!!! TAPOS TITLE MO {KINAWAWANG INC}???? HAYSSSSS ONESIDED KC NAG PAGKAKA UPLOAD…
UN LANG KAYA SANA FAIR ANG LAHAT DB PRA MAKITA ANG TOTOO.
jerry said
gumawa k n lng ng sarili mong website….. tapos e download mo lahat INC debate…. at ipagmayabang mo rin…. para di k n magsasalita…..
romana said
kasi hindi makasagot,tamimi hahahaha.
jason abalos said
ang totoo jason my pagkakataon na inaamin nila na my pagsamba sila sa larawan my pagkakataon rin nmn na itinatanggi nila na sila raw ay hindi sumasamba sa larawan,kaya nga hindi mu tlga maintindihan ang paninindigan eh..
wala raw sila aral na pagsamba sa larawan ginagalang lang daw nila, eh aklat nila mismo nagsasabi umaamin na sila ay my pagsamba sa larawan eh, sa aklat na;
“catesismo ni padre luis de amezquita p.82 at 85”
“pagbangon mo sa banig ay agad kang manikluhod sa harap ng isang cruz o isang mahal na larawan.kung maninikluhod ka sa tapat ng altar ay magwika ka ng ganito: SINASAMBA KITA.”
isang pang aklat:
“siya ang inyong pakinggan” ang aral na katoliko ni padre enrique demond,p.12
“kung ating SINASAMBA ang LARAWAN ni KRISTONG napapako sa krus,dinadasal natin:SINASAMBA KITA ar PINUPURI panginoong kong jesukristo”
kaya bro jason walang dahilan pra manatili kapa sa kinabibilangan mung relihiyon,ikaw na mismo ay naguguhuhan kaya dapat mung laliman ang pagsusuri payo ku lang sayo…
james villamor said
nakau na i tsismis lang yan saiyo ng MINISTRO JASON -WALANG NAKALAGAY NA SINASAMBA ANG LARAWAN SA CATESISMO NI PADRE LUIS DE AMEZQUITA– NG NAKASULAT –PAGBANGON MU SA BANIG –AY AGAD KANG MANIKLUHOD SA HARAP NG ISANG LARAWAN ——— DI NAMAN SINABING AGAD MUNG SAMBAHIN BILANG DIOS
luv said
hello jason,huwag ka po makinig sa payo ng hindi katoliko kasi lalo ka po mas maguguluhan,. Kausapin mo po ang pari sa parish na kinabibilangan mo at hintayin mo dito ang mga kasagutan ng CFD sa mga tanong mo. Magdasal ka po at tiyak na liliwanag ang iyong kaisipan. Ganito lang pa po ang logic. Kung meron kang mahal sa buhay na malayo sayo. Di ba mas gugustuhin mo na may maitago kang larawan nya? Minsan nga hinahalikan mo pa ang larawan nya pero ibig bang sabihin nito ay sinasamba mo na sya? Paano kung punitin ang larawan na yan? ano kaya po mararamdaman mo? di ba masasaktan ka? Bakit ka masasaktan kung punitin ang larawan ng iyong mahal sa buhay kung iyon ay nasa papel lamang? Hindi naman yun papel na may larawan ang mahal mo kundi yun ne ri represent ng nasa larawan,. Ako bilang isang katoliko alam ko po kung gaano kahalaga ang mga larawan at rebolto sa ating pananampalataya.
jason abalos said
hello sir/mam: Ang dapat po cguro niong sagutin ay ung mga aklat katoliko na DOKTRINA ninyo na nagsasabi UMAAMIN na ang mga KATOLIKO ay SUMASAMBA sa LARAWAN..Ang 22o marami pang aklat KATOLIKO nagsasabi at UMAAMIN na ang mga katoliko ay sumasamba sa larawan kung ipopost ku pa d2 kung gz2 mo hahaba nga lang tayo..
sabi mu pa po nirerepresent nio lang ang nsa larawan? labag na labag po yan sa sinasabi ng BIBLIA..
Isaias 46:5 “Kanino ninyo ako ITUTULAD,atIPAPARIS,at IWAWANGIS AKO,UPANG KAMI AY MAGKAGAYA?
Ang DIYOS mismo ang nagtatnong retorical question,ibig sabihin lang WALA siayang KATULAD,wala siyang KAPARIS,wala siyang KAWANGIS,wala siyang KAGAYA..
“Ang DIYOS ay ESPIRITU” Juan 4:24″ “Ang ESPIRITU ay walang LAMAN at BUTO” Lucas 24:39″ Kaya tanong? PANO MU SIYA IGAGAWA NG LARAWAN? KANINO MU SIYA ITUTULAD??
kung nirerepresent nio sa DIYOS NYU PINATUTUNGKOL? labag po uli sa BIBLIA..
Isaias 42:8 “Ako ang panginoon na siyang aking pangalan at ang aking kaluwalhatian ay hindi ko ibibgay sa iba,o o ang akin mang kapurihan sa larawang inanyuan”
ang kapurihan at kaluwalhatian ng diyos DI NIYA IBIBIGAY SA IBA,KAHIT PA SA LARAWAN..
WAG PO SNA KAYO MASAKTAN DATI RIN AKO KATOLIKO AT NAGSURI KAYA WALA NAKO SA CATHOLIC CHRUCH..
luv said
ayoko ko po magpadebate sayo kasi bilang katoliko gingalang namin ang mga iba sekta, pero gusto ko po sabihin na marami na po ako kakilala katoliko umanib sa iba but now they are back to the catholic churc kasi nagguri din sila. And marami din po ako kakilala na nasa iba sekta pero katoliko na sila ngayun dahil nagsuri din sila. God bless everyone
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=386481709644&id=96426468642&ref=mf
luv said
sir Jason paki click na lang po eto link, pero hindi po eto debate site, Godbless, thanks
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=386481709644&id=96426468642&ref=mf
cyril said
dati ka palang katoliko eh…tapos hndi mo mn lng na defend. as per observation, mga manalista na katoliko dati ay mostly uneducated about the catholic church kya mdaling naniwala…teka, isa ka ba dun?????un educated ka cguro sa doctrine ng catholic no???kawawa ka nmn…
jerry said
dati k plang catholic… di mo mn lang inisip n hindi mo lubos na naintindihan ang catholic lumipat k n… kaya ang nasa puso mo ngaun ay inggit at galit at gusto mong mangdamay ng ibang catholic para matulad sayo…. n puno ng tanong at hindi nakokuntento kasi nga sarado at puno n ng hinanakit ang kalooban mo…. sana basahin mo uli ang doctrine ng catholic at kung meron kang hindi maintindihan magtanong k sa Simbahan e approach mo ang pari o di kaya mga CFD…
catholicfaithdefender said
Amen bro….
romana said
Jason may mga opinion o idea lang ng tao na hindi ito nagrerepresent sa buong familia. bashin mo nalang ang Magistrium-teaching of the Church.
Bro Noel said
Mr Abalos,
Ung mga nkita mo na palabas ng INC videos at audio ay puro dinodoktor un, mahilig kc silang ipalabas na sila ung nanalo pro hindi pala un ang totoo dahil sa live debate sila pala ang talo. Sa napakinggan kong live debate between Soc and INC minister ay kaawa-awa talaga ang inyong ministro dahil hindi lang palaging nasupalpal eh hindi pa nkapagpatayo sa Iglesia na siyay isang kasapi, pro nong itoy ini- replay sa DYFX na isang INC radio station, e tinatanggal ung bahagi na sila ay di makasagot at natatalo. Meron din akong live audio sa Bohol debate, wala talaga ang INC minister Ramil Parba, puro lang pasigaw sigaw, mahilig magpalabas at gumamit ng mga documento subalit puro putol-putol naman at pag ito basahin ng tuloy tuloy mali pala yong sinasabi ng mga INC, puro deception yong ginagawa nila para makakuha ng maraming member at marami silang kikitain sa ABULUYAN. Kaya nga sa SEC naka rehistro ang simbahang ito dahil puro pang pera at negosyo lang sila, eh founder nga nila hindi mismo kasapi sa simbahan nila dahil di nga na bautismohan, talo pa sa Cristo na binautismohan ni Juan. More better to you Mr. Abalos is to start digging and studying the history of the Catholic Church, Wis8:8 you must learn the past to gain new knowledge. Gog bless.
jerry said
Tama k brod noel….. marami din akong nakitang mga video at audio n laging pinuputol ng mga INC…. kawawa n mn ang ministro nila…. hindi nila ipinapakita ang buong eksena…. pag ang isang pangyayari ay hindi mo ikukumpleto o e detail ang pagsasabi ibig sabihin panloloko yan o pagsisinungaling…. and you know Mr. Jason Abalos…. Father of all Lie is Satan…. think of that…..
catholicfaithdefender said
Amen….
CatholicTheTrueChurch said
@JASON ABALOS:
1. Do not think that you are the first to understand God’s message and that there were no true Christians before you. this would be the way to become a founder of another strange sect.
2. The word of God is life giving but that does not mean that every word is an instant problem-solver today. Each word was given by GOD to people living under concrete circumstances. Let us ponder what their problem was and what God wanted them to understand. then we may ask: what light does this message shed on the present time and circumstances.
3.God taught his people for more than 15 centuries from ABraham to the apostles, but he did not teach everything from the beginning. do not wonder, then, that MOses and even the Prophets ignored matters as manifested by the witnesses of Jesus who is the WORD of GOD.
4.From the very first message which God gave his people, he had in mind the coming of his Son and the mystery of his cross and resurrection. all is to be understood in this light.
5. in the bible, what is most important is clearly taught. howver, some pages that actually have little to teach us were written in a sophisticated way according to an old literary style. do not cling to some strange sentences to the point of forsaking what is clear and fundamental.
6. Read your bible continually, not to learn what you do not yet know, but as a proof of your LOVE and FAITHFULNESS to GOD. if you persevere, he will give you the understanding you need. -Excerpt from CHRISTIAN COMMUNITY BIBLE.
CatholicTheTrueChurch said
@JASON ABALOS,
Sa amin ay tinuturo na huwag makipagdebate kung hindi kinakailangan sapagkat ito ay nagdudulot ng galit, pagkamuhi at pagkawatak watak. tinuturo saming simbahan na PAGMAMAHAL ang siya dapat namamayani sa ating mga puso.. alam ko marami kang katanungan at ako ay natutuwa dahil sa ganitong paraan ay nalalaman mo ang tungkol sa aming pananampalataya bilang KATOLIKO.. Iglesia ka man o protestant man, lahat tayo ay magkakapatid sa piling ng ating Panginoon..
romana said
the inc,they were taught how to increase their number, simple math, number= incentives ng kanilang pastors na bulaan.
Rea09 said
all of your commentaries are within the text but all I have to say is that.. The other religion is trying to be hypocrite.. They tried to debate to the Catholic church without even trying to reflect the true message o the bible.. they only comprehend that the bible is a worldly measure of the true church.. The true meaning of the bible is LOVE.. We are just blinded for seeking the truth even though the truth that we are searching is already on our front talking to us face to face… the true meaning of the bible is.. “LOVE”..
jason abalos said
really?? how did u know that? ikaw na my sabi “they only comprehend that the bible is a worldly measure of the true church.. thats right! lam mu rin ba na ang bible ang MAGPAPABULAAN sa MALING ARAL? na ang BIBLE ay MAGAGAMIT sa PAGTUTURO ng KATOTOHANAN {2 Timoteo 3:16} kung my tunay na pagmamahal ka kapwa mo tao,di ka papayag na sya ay mapahamak.di ka papayag na nanatili sya sa MALING ARAL at wala sa KATOTOHANAN,Di masama makipag debate kung my issue na nililiwanag..ang masamang debate yung walang kabuluhan ung pagmumulan lang ng away..
imbes na mangatuwiran kayo,bkt di ninyo sagutin ang mga katanungan ng mga tao d2 sa site na to,di ba CATHOLIC FAITH DEFENDERS ito?
catholicfaithdefender said
ikaw jason abalos tambalos kos, singari rakag bula2x mura kag umang nga hala pangamay kong walay kaaway….
Debate nalang kaha ta!!!!
jason abalos said
bat kayo gagalit?! ganyan ba kayo makipag usap sa tao? di kita maintindihan wag ka po mag bisaya..
catholicfaithdefender said
To Jason Abalos:
Yan ang problema sayo hindi mo naintindihan ang bisaya… hindi naman siya nagbibisaya… katulad din yan sa pag-intindi sa bible… katulad niyo mismo, mga taga INC hindi ninyo naintindihan ang bibliya ng mga katoliko na kami mismo ang gumawa,, kaya ang ginawa ninyo ay ginamit at binago ninyo at ang resulta ay ang sarili ninyong bibliya……. how sad….
ReaL09 said
The truth is that…. NO body will be saved unless you repent and go back to GOD….Repent and you will be saved..
jason abalos said
SINO ang diyos na dapat nating balikan at dapat nating sampalatayanan pra tayo maligtas??
catholicfaithdefender said
to Jason ABAlos…
Jason kung magdadasal ka ay iparating mo muna ito kay mama mary… do not go directly to Jesus or God the Father….. Bahala na si mama mary na mag sabi nito sa kanyang anak….Mama Mary will help you… Trust me and it’s really proven….
jason abalos said
to mr. g-one pasiones, i have a question:
sa aklat katoliko na isinulat ng pari na ang pamagat ay:
“The externals of the catholic church” by: John F. Sullivan,p.226
“It is interesting to note how often OUR CHRUCH {Catholic Chruch} has availed herself of practices which were in common use among PAGANS,and which owed their origin their aproriateness for expressing something spiritual by material means.The CHRUCH and her clergy are ‘all things to all men,that they main gain all for christ.And she has often found that it was well to take what was PRAISEWORTHY in other forms of WORSHIP and adapt into her own purposes,for the sanctification of her children.”
Thus it is TRUE,in certain sence,that some CATHOLIC RITES and CEREMONIES are a REPRODUCTION OF THOSE OF PAGAN CREEDS;…”
Sa Pilipino:
“Kasiya siyang mapuna kung gaano kalimit pinakikinabangan ng ating {Iglesia Katolika} ang mga kaugaian na karaniwang ginagamit ng mga PAGANO,at nagmula ang mga ito sa kanilang kaangkupang magpahayag ng isang bagay na ukol sa espiritu sa pamamagitan ng praang panglaman.Ang iglesia at ang kanyang mga pari ay ang lahat ng bagay sa lahat ng tao,upang kanilang makamit ang lahat kay kristo at madalas niyang matagpuan na mabuting PULUTIN ang mga KAPURI PURI sa ibang mga uri ng PAGSAMBA at ilapat ito sa kanyang sarilng mga layunin para sa pagpapakabanl sa kanyang mga anak,”
“Kaya TOTOO sa isang kahulugan na ang ilang sa mga RITOS at CEREMONYA ng KATOLIKO ay HINANGO DOON sa mga PANANALIG PAGANO;….”
Ayon po sa pari na sumulat ng aklat; ang Iglesia Katolika po NAMULOT KUMOPYA ng mga ARAL sa PAGANO.
Ang Relihiyon po ba na may ARAL ng PAGANO na ITINATAGUYOD ay IPAGIGING sa DIYOS po ba ng tao at ikaliligtas?
salamat po…
luv said
sir jason, lahat po ba ng aral ng INC ay nakabasi sa Bibliya?bakit po ba kayo nagsi celebrate ng birthday, anniversaries and etc? bakit po ba may mga ritwal din po kayo ginagawa sa kasal na hindi naman nakasulat sa bibliya?
catholicfaithdefender said
Debate nalang ta jason sa Personal!!!!!
By: G-one Paisones
jason abalos said
Catholicfaithdefender said
August 6, 2010 at 4:42 am
Debate nalang ta jason sa Personal!!!!!
By: G-one Paisones
Jason Abalos said
basta ba sasagutin nio pamasahe ko eh pede..hehe
pakisagot po tanung ko sa itaas wag po ninyo ibahin po usapan..
thanks..
catholicfaithdefender said
Dili diay kag sukol ha!!!!!!
catholicfaithdefender said
ako deleton imo mga comments kay wala koy panahon nimo…. then ting exam pod nako karon…..
romana said
be useful JAson ,do not sound illiterate na hindi naman. dont be sound like ignorant. wala kang mapapala.it is the spirit of hatred that dwells in you. i can see the good point,anyway, you are searching for big Truth,go on… see the balance beam and find out the difference, if your God pulled you up at the right wings ride with it, basta sure ka ang not being deceived by false teachings.Peace be with you?e-mail me if you like.
Catholicthetruechurch said
@ jason abalos..
mahirap magpaliwanag sa isang tao na sarado na ang isip sa mga bagay bagay.. kilala ang mga miyembro ng mga INC sa pagiging agresibo nila, at mahilig magalit at sumigaw pag nakikipag debate.. naaawa ako sa kanilang lahat.. pinaikot ni manalo, na brainwash na ng tuluyan.. nawa ang espiritu santo ay pumasok sa kanila.. at maliwanagan.. may mga kakilala ako na mga miyembro na hindi sila pinapabasa ng biblia ng kanilang ministro.. bakit kaya?? tanging mga salita lang ng mga ministro ang pinakikinggan nila.. sana naman sa pagdasal ko e.. lahat sila ay maliwanagan..
jason abalos said
hindi mo tlga maipapaliwanag dahil iniiwasan ninyo ang mga tanong ko,imbes na sagutin ninyo sa mga ganyan argumento nyo ko dinadaan,hindi ba kayo ang sarado ang isip?
haha ganyan ganyan din ang palusot ni cenon bibe takot masigawan hahah! ang OA nmn ng palusot niyo! anu ba gz2 nyo debate nagbubulungan? hahah! halata na nmin yang palusot nyong yan! alam nyo nmng kung magteksto kami tlga sumisigaw ang mga ministro,
ang prob sa inyo umiimbento kayo ng aral tapos pina aangkin nyo samin di nmn namin aral! san alimuom mu nakuha na hindi kami pinababasa ng biblia? haha! yung mga miembro nyo nga eh sinasabi katoliko sila pero ayaw maniwala sa biblia keso ginawa lang daw ng tao! hahaha! oh! nagbibintang ba kame kung sabihin nmin yan??!
di nmin kailangan ng dasal mo! di kami nanalangin ng paulit ulit labag sa biblia yan!
Catholicthetruechurch said
aminin mo na, na kailanman,, hindi kayo pinapahintulutan ng inyong ministro na buksan ang inyong biblia.. puro ministro ang nagdidikta ng lahat ng gagawin nyo.. bago ako maniwala sau.. buksan mo muna biblia mo.. ng maliwanagan ka..
serizawa said
isa ako sa mga dinodoktrinahan.. nag simula ako nuong 2011 january.. at ang sabi sa akin ng diakono ay isulat q kung anung mga talata at verses ang mga sinasabi sa bibliya pra kung sakaling ako ay usigin kaya kong depensahan ang aking sarili gamit ang bibliya na ginagamit namin sa bahay.
Nakapakinig ako minsan sa Iglesia ni Cristo chronicles.. at habang nakikinig ako, hinahanap q sa bibliya namin ang mga sinasabi sa palabas. Ang bibliyang aking ginamit ay ang karaniwang bibliya na nabibili sa bookstore.
catholicfaithdefender said
Serizawa…. ngayong na doctrinahan kana sa INC(Manalo) dapat rin dimo isasara ang pintoan sa pag-aaral mo sa mga aral ng Katoliko… sapagkat hindi nagsisinungaling si Cristo na hindi madadaig ng Kamatayan ang Iglesia(Mat. 16:18) taliwas ito sa itinotoro ng mga ministro ni manalo na nawala na ang unang iglesiang itinatag ni Cristo…
Nakabubuti sa iyo na magbasa ka ng mga artikolo namin sa mga Catholic Doctrines…. pwedi kang mamili kung ano ang gusto mo….. may iba ring mga web site na pwedi mong puntahan na naka link sa aming domain (https://catholicfaithdefenders.com)…
narito po ang mga link hinggil sa mga imahi:
http://catholicfaithdefenders.com/289.html
http://catholicfaithdefenders.com/iglesia-catolica-%E2%80%93-sumasamba-ngaba-ng-larawan_part2.html
Salamat….
Catholicthetruechurch said
Iglesia ni Cristo (INC) logo: Christian or Masonic symbol?
I found an interesting article from Pinoy Catholic on the meaning of the Iglesia ni Cristo (INC) logo:
The interlaced square and compass denotes Freemasonry
The crown at the center denotes the Order of Amaranth, a fraternal organization of master masons and their properly qualified female relatives
The compass, inverted triangle, and legs denotes the Order of the Eastern Star
The light rays at the background denotes the sun god.
The scales of justice denotes the Scales of Maat, the Egyptian goddess of truth, order, balance, and justice
The bible inside the inverted triangle and compass refers to the use of the bible in masonic lodge for swearing oaths
The dove and the color white denotes purity and innocence
The color red denotes courage, zeal, and blood of life–the color of Royal Arch Masonry
The color green denotes spiritual initiation into the high mysteries of life and god
The color blue recalls the dome of the heavens which denotes universal brotherhood and friendship
The inverted triangle points to the 22nd ray which probably signifies a 22nd degree mason–Knight of the Royal Axe.
To be fair to INC, I’ll try to provide a biblical meaning to the INC logo, with their doctrines in mind:
The dove is the dove of Noah. Just as the evil world was washed away by the flood and a new world was born, so was the apostate Catholic Church was abandoned by God and He established a new church, Iglesia ni Cristo, at the end of time.
The sun’s rays and the bible denotes the Prologue of John: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came to be through him, and without him nothing came to be. What came to be through him was life, and this life was the light of the human race; the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.” (Jn 1:1-5) Surprisingly, this passage proves the divinity of Christ, which INC does not believe.
The lamb and dove denotes the Baptism of Christ: “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world. He is the one of whom I said, ‘A man is coming after me who ranks ahead of me because he existed before me.’ I did not know him, but the reason why I came baptizing with water was that he might be made known to Israel.” John testified further, saying, “I saw the Spirit come down like a dove from the sky and remain upon him. I did not know him, but the one who sent me to baptize with water told me, ‘On whomever you see the Spirit come down and remain, he is the one who will baptize with the holy Spirit.’” Surprisingly, the INC also does not believe on the divinity of the Holy Spirit.
The Triangle denotes the Dogma of the Holy Trinity, which states that there are three Persons in one God. Christ himself gave the following Trinitarian formula for Bapstism: “Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.” (Mt 28:19-20). Surprisingly, INC does not believe on the Trinity.
Thus, INC uses Christian symbols, but does not believe on the meaning of the symbols. (The INC has not still provided an official interpretation of their logo).
william said
haaaay nq..
tapus sasabihan tayu na bawal
daw mag antanda ng krus kasi
parang ipinapako daw natin
si hesus ng paul8 ul8??
kawawa naman yung fam ng GF q. .
dati silang catholic tapos
naaya lang ng frend nila kc di sila close
sa pamilyang tinubuuan nila. .
ayun bawal daw yung catholic to INC relationship. .
how rude!!!
GOD claming his love unconditional?!!
tapos sasabihin nila against daw yun??. . .
silly them :))
romana said
they are actually anti family,hiwalay magsimba. at matulis ang bbong para tusukin muli si Hesus. they are actually Iglesia ni Manalo,the fallen Mandaragit.-Angel.
jkpiggy said
san nkasulat ung purgatory sa bible
catholicfaithdefender said
Saan nakasulat sa Bible na dapat nakasulat sa Bible ang dapat paniniwalaan….??? Letra-4-letra!!!!! BASAHAAA!!!!
Bob said
Marcelo Virtudes said
Noon sa aking kabataan, mga nasa elementarya pa lang ako, ay madalas akong nakakarinig ng mga pang-uusig sa “Iglesiang Laganap na Makaapostol at ang Puno ay nasa Roma” o “The Roman Catholic Apostolic Church.” Inaamin ko noon na nasasaktan ako noon, palibhasa ay wala akong alam sa biblia.
Ang kalimitan nilang sinasabi sa akin ay ito, “Hindi ba gawain ng mga pagano iyan? Bawal ang ganyang pagsamba.”
Isang araw, ay dinoktrinahan ako at binasa ang talatang ito, “…Pumunta si Jesus kasama ang kanyang mga alagad sa liblib na lugar. Nakita nila ang mga paganong Hintil na nagsisisamba. Sa kanyang paglapit ay agad siyang nagsalita nito ng malakas, “bakit ninyo sinasamba ang mga dios-diosan na Iyan? Ang Ganyang Pagsamba ay Nararapat lamang sa Ama.”
Pagkatapos ay nagpaliwanag ang ministro ng ganito “Hindi ba mga kapatid na bawal ang pagsamba na ginagawa ng mga pagano lalong-lalo na kung gawin sa Dios? Napakalinaw ng sinabi ni Jesus. Kaya, hindi namin ginagawa ang pagsamba ng mga pagana gaya ng pagpapausok, prosisyon, kandila, altar, mag-alay ng mga bulaklak, paulit-ulit na dasal, at nga kung anu-ano pa. Subalit, ang lahat ng mga ipinagbabawal na iyan ay siyang ginagawa ng Iglesia Katolika.”
Nabigla ako sa paliwanag na iyan ng ministro. Dahil, ang inaasahan kong paliwanag ay ito, “Ang mga ritwal o pagsamba ng mga pagano ay bawal gawin sa mga dios-diosan, sa halip ay sa Amang Dios o tunay na Dios lamang gawin ang ganyang pagsamba. Kaya, tama ang ginawa ng Iglesia Katolika, na ginagawa lamang nila ang pagsambang nararapat lamang sa tunay na Dios.”
Sa pagkakataong iyan, ay nagliwanag sa akin na ang ginagawa nila sa Iglesia Katolika ay paninira lamang. Napagtanto ko na iba ang kanilang paliwanag at sinasabi doon sa talatang pinagbabatayan.
Lalo pa iyang tumindi nang sabihin niya na huwag gamitin ang sariling pang-intindi dahil malaki ang posibilidad na manatili at maakay pa kami ng mga paring Katoliko.
Sa kabuoan, ay hindi ako umanib sa kanilang iglesia.
Sa kabuoan, ay nagliwanag sa akin na ang Iglesia Katolika Apostolika Romana ang tunay na iglesiang itinatag ni cristo.
At higit sa lahat, ang aklat ng kasaysayan at ang hatol ng Wrld Justice ay pumanig sa iglesia katolika.
Kaya, Hinding-hindi ako aalis sa iglesia katolika, dahil ito ang tunay na iglesia ni cristo.
Castigo said
Seeing the posts above, especially the that one testimony on indoctrination, parang pinipili lang ng mga diakono ng Iglesia yung mga ibibigay sa mga dinodoktrinahan. Maybe, nobody disagree if I say that the Bible is written by men that are inspired by the Holy Spirit. And God cannot contradict Himself. So, bakit kelangang piliin ang mga bagay na dapat tandaan ukol sa Bibliya? Its either hindi na kailangang ipaliwanag o hindi makakatulong sa pagpapatunay ng katotohanan ng mga doktrina nila ang pag-konekta ng bawat salita sa Bibliya. Hindi ba’t mas nakakasupil ng katotohanan ang ginagawa nila?
Maari po ba akong magtanong kay Ginoong Abalos?
Isaias 44:6
“Ang sabi ni Yahweh na makapangyarihan sa lahat, Hari at Tagapagligtras ng Israel
Ako ang Simula at ang Wakas, walang ibang Diyos maliban sa Akin.”
Pahayag 1:17-18
“Pagkakita ko sa kanya, para akong patay na nalugmok sa paanan niya. Ngunit ipinatong niya sakin ang kanyang kanang kamay at sinabi: “Huwag kang matakot! Ako ang Simula at ang Wakas, at ang Nabubuhay! Namatay ako ngunit masdan mo, ako’y buhay ngayon at mananatiling buhay magpakailanman. Nasa ilalim ng kapangyarihan ko ang kamatayan at ang daidig ng mga patay.”
Sinabi po ni Kristo ang mga katagang iyan kay Juan sa Pahayag. Kung si Kristo po ay isang tao, ano po ang karapatang mayroon siya para sabihin niya ang mga katagang sinabi mismo ng Diyos sa Isaias? Hindi po ba kalapastanganan iyon sa Diyos? Si Moises ay naging dakila man din, gayun din si Elias. Ngunit si Kristo lamang po ang nakapagsabi ng mga parehong kataga. Paulit ulit po iyang nangyari sa Bibliya.
idaragdag ko lang po ang link na ito para po inyong mabasa.
http://www.uniquebiblestudy.com/how-to-study-the-bible-b.htm
Ano po ang masasabi niyo ukol dito?
Jenjen said
a blessed afternoon to everybody! 🙂
being a Catholic, we are basically not “lectured” or “trained” to scorn the beliefs of others and does not focus on criticisms and degradation of non-Catholics. Nonetheless, the homilies are grounded on CHARITY, MODESTY, HONESTY, ETHICS, MORALITY, PEACE, SERVICE, COMPASSION and the like.
yes, you may argue that you are SUPPOSED to spread your subjective truth, or else, we will end up in the fires of hell and so on.
BUT why, WHY is the bulk of your TV programs, sermons and journals are sooo passionate about despising other religion, especially of the Catholic Church, labeling our faith as work of demons with conviction and your loud voices.
well, tell me, since when did CHARITY, MODESTY, HONESTY, ETHICS, MORALITY, PEACE, SERVICE, COMPASSION, FORGIVENESS, LOVE and the like became demonic? your grounds? what? our devotion to images? the fact that we allow ingestion animal blood? our claim that Christ is God? celebrating feasts? the celibacy of the priests? the importance that we give to the Saints and our Mother Virgin Mary? Seriously? Well all of these had been defended by our good Catholic faith defenders biblically and historically. But just by simple LOGIC, HAD ANY OF THESE PRACTICES DONE OR CAUSED HARM TO YOU? BECAUSE THE FACT THAT YOU KEEP ON CURSING OUR FAITH, SEARCHING AND SEARCHING FOR MISTAKES, BRAGGING YOUR SO-CALLED ANALYSIS as you keep on using magsuri at magsuri (is it really your own analysis or that of Mr. Manalo?), i guess YOU GUYS ARE CAUSING HARM TO THE RELATIONSHIPS OF CATHOLICS AND INC FOLLOWERS.
simple, you guys are fighting over bible verses. QUESTION: SAAN BA NAGMULA ANG BIBLIYA NA PINAGTATALUNAN NG KUNG SINU-SINO CONTAINING BOTH THE OLD AND NEW TESTAMENT? HINDI BA SA SIMBAHANG KATOLIKA NA ITINATAG NI HESUKRISTO?
“Being conscious in the first place that NO MAN by himself may give a special sense to the words of the prophets.” 2 Peter 1:20
and we all know, that Saint Peter is the rock of the Holy Catholic Church. those who wants to argue can sue the authors of our history.
i guess that people who keep on flaming negative comments here, are just pissed because the Catholic defenders are defeating them in a field where they “believe” to be good at: siting Biblical scriptures to let others down.
You’re hurt because you’re labeled as Manalista and we are not supposed to judge INC? WOW. NOW LOOK WHO’S TALKING?
as i may seem to nullify my statement that we are not trained to argue the beliefs of others, we are not really, it is INC, who provoke and started this. INC started the attacks. we’re merely DEFENDING.
and i apologize if i may have hurt INC with my words.
–
at the end of the day, Christianity is not supposed to cause human separation. There are but more problems of humanity these days. this surely is not the time for us Christians to be separated.
please do visit this video of saint jose maria escriva when a Jewish girl tell that she wanted to convert to Catholicism
PEACE!
romana said
Good. sila kaya ata yong lamb na lobo. they used ” divide and rule tactics ng Espanyol noon.
ka-ye said
Sa lahat ng tao dito,
I want you to know na naniniwala ako na ang lahat ng relihiyon ay may pag kakamali..
sa katoliko meron..( my mga tao kcng pasaway talga pero sa sobrang daming katoliko sa mundo o sa isang bansa hindi kakayanin ng 1 tao ang 100 tao na itama ang mga maling gawa)hindi lahat ng tao open minded sa lahat ng bagay!
sa iglesia hindi ko lang matanggap na sasabihin nilang sila lang mag maliligtas sa araw ng pag huhukom .. panu nila nasabi yun? nakausap ba nila ng DIYOS?
gusto kong malaman nyo na katoliko ako! kayang kayang kong paunayan na ang doctrina ni manalo ay hindi makatao!
hindi man ako mapagbasa ng word of GOD .. i know na sinbi nya na ” iligtas mo ang katabi mo bago ang sarili mo”
ipagpalagy na tin na ang INC ako at ung katabi ko katoliko?
kung mahuhulog si Katoliko sa bangin at ang tanging kasama nya lang sa lugar na yun ay isang iglesia.. aasa ka ba na ililigtas ka nya? syempre hindi kc alam mong nicclaim nila na sila lang ang maliligtas ..
sa tingin mo INC kung gaagwin ng katoliko sayo yun hindi sasama ang tingin mo sa kanya! yun ung ibg kong sabihin..
if GOD wants us to save, Only GOD knows that.. you cannot judge his words after all.. right? panu kung hindi ka nya iligtas?
kala ko ba kayong mga iglesia .. nabubuhay sa salita ng diyos?
eh bkit nyo sinsabing kayo lang ang maliligtas?
“MAKASARILI ang tawag jan”
nasa salita ba ng DIYOS ang maging makasarili.. si GOD ba nagclaim na xa lang ang maliligtas ? no! he sacrifices despite of all heartaches that He gain from us! ryt?
eto pa..bkit my mga sector INC bkit my audit kayo sa lahat ng perang nakukuha nyo sa mga tao.. bkit hindi na nagttrabaho ang mga ministro nyo? tingin nyo saan ila kinukuha ang pang araw araw na w na gastos n buong pamilya nila?
“sa Iglesia ni cristo”
ang iglesia ba tumutulong sa mahihirap?
hindi man lahat ng pera ng katolikong tao ang nappunta sa pagtulong alam nmin na nakakatulong kame hindi lang sa mga kauri nming relihiyon kundi sa lahat ng taong nangangailangan ng tulong..
kayo nappunta ang pondo nyo? saan? sa pagpapagawa ng bagong church para makalikom ng bagong pagkakakitaan…
naniniwala ba kyong ang pakikipagrelasyon sa ibang relihiyon ay isang kasalanan?
malaking kalokohan..
my freedom ang tao kung sino ang mamahalin at magmamahal sa kanila…pero kung sarado ang utak mo sa maling paniniwala.. wala nang magagawa…
GODBLESS ALL! basta ko.. wala nkong alam na paniniwala kundi ang mahalin ang DIYOS na kinamulatan ko at ang DIYOS na habangbuhay na magmamahal sakin.. LORD GOD..
ka-ye said
gusto ko lang abihin ky miss jenny.. na nasagot na lahat ni DCF ang laaht ng tanong mo.. kaya mag convert ka na…
tara simba tayo.. at magpabautismo..
through GOD you will be able to see the holiness of baptism..
william said
sabi nga nila there is one god!!
and our great GOD is the only way the truth and the light!!
maniniwala ba kayu sa mga bulaang propeta?. .
sabi sa TV ang kaya lang naman daw na tirahin ng INC eh yung ang dating daan. .
kahit yung mga debate sa youtube. .
tapos the obviously claim pa na at the end of the world silang sila lang maliligtas?..
tahaha how silly. .
sabi nga NO CHURCH CAN SAVE A SOUL!!
YOU WILL BE SAVED BY YOUR FAITH!!. .
si hesukristo lang ang may karapatan na magsalita ng tapos. .
hindi kung sino man. .
😀
romana said
Church is our relation to Christ,we are the Church ,Jesus is our head we are the body. if we lost the head…. it like plants vs zombies.hahaha.
zara said
I agree with those who commented here that these non-catholics who were accusing catholics of Idolatry, false doctrines, etc…intend to destroy the credibility of The Catholic Church and persuade catholics to join their group..Remember catholics, that these accusation about idolatry and etc were not doctrines of Catholic Church but these were the teachings of the enemies of the church being taught to their members to attack the true Church.
Angus Jeff S. Malonzo said
100% katolikong pinoy ako..
khit anung sabihin ng ibang sekta.. igagalang ko lng sila..
dahil alam ko, dadating at dadating ang araw na maliliwanagan din sila..
ang mga mali ay maitatama. ang tama ay mananatiling tama.
ang mga nagpapakababa ay siyang itataas, ang nagpapakataas ay siyang ibababa
Ang ESPIRITU na ang gagabay sa inyo..
sa mga katoliko manatili kayu sa ating relihiyon.. bago kau maniwala sa iba..
isipin nyo lgi, ay may kasagutan ang ating CatholicFaithDefender jan..
wala pa akong nkikitang mali sa pananampalatayang katoliko..
sapagkat lahat ng gusto kong itanong ay sinagot na ng ating CatholicFaithDefender.
huwag nating kalimutang magdasal,, sa tulong na rin ng mga santo…
gagabayan tayo ng ating espiritu.
Pagpalain tayo ng poong Maykapal.
Angus Jeff S. Malonzo said
Mr. William ang ganda po ng sinabi mo…
“NO CHURCH CAN SAVE A SOUL!!
YOU WILL BE SAVED BY YOUR FAITH!!. .
si Hesukristo lang ang may karapatan na magsalita ng tapos”
jesse said
my comment lang ako. catholic ako. po ndi ako nka dipende sa religion ko. but im willing to defend catholic.
npansin ko lang sa ibng religion lalo na sa INC, napaka tahimik ng catholic khit saan mang misa wala kng maririnig o maba2nggit ang pari against other religion nanahimik kmi. nasubukan kong pumasok ilang beses narinb sa INC,pansin ko pg nkita nlia na my ibng religion pasasaringan nila ung nki2nig halimbawa ung katoliko na nki2nig ng aral nila. if my gustong mkipg debate skin?
let’s find out mg umpisa tau sa simula
catholicfaithdefender said
Welcome sa Catholic Faith Defenders ang gropo na wala nag salig sa suhol…. puro serbisyo lamang sa DIos!!!!!!!!! Amen
robenszelte said
Strikingly well executed writing
Dondie Bernardino said
Ang Salita ng Diyos ay naisulat sa puso ng Simbahang itinatag ni Kristo bago pa man ito naisulat sa papel (New Testament)..
Community of Disciples came first before the scriptures (New Testament).
Dahil sa “Holy Tradition” na ipinasa ng mga Apostoles sa mga sinaunang Kristiyano, nabuo ang Bibliya (New Testament).
Kaya ang ating Pananampalataya ay nakabatay sa “Holy Tradition” at “Sacred Scriptures” na pinangangalagaan at pinagpapatuloy ng tunay na Simbahan.
Kaya sa mga kapatid na INC, wag ninyong tuligsahin ang mismong AUTHOR ng binabasa ninyong bibliya…
Kung may Copyright law lang noon… hay naku alam nyo na…
76nonoy said
The Iglesia ni Cristo (Tagalog, “Church of Christ”) claims to be the true Church established by Christ. Felix Manalo, its founder, proclaimed himself God’s prophet. Many tiny sects today claim to be the true Church, and many individuals claim to be God’s prophet. What makes Iglesia ni Cristo different is that it is not as tiny as others.
Since it was founded in the Philippines in 1914, it has grown to more than two hundred congregations in sixty-seven countries outside the Philippines, including an expanding United States contingent. The Iglesia keeps the exact number of members secret, but it is estimated to be between three million and ten million worldwide. It is larger than the Jehovah’s Witnesses, a better known sect (which also claims to be Christ’s true Church). Iglesia is not better known, despite its numbers, because the majority of Iglesia’s members are Filipino. Virtually the only exceptions are a few non-Filipinos who have married into Iglesia families.
The organization publishes two magazines, Pasugo and God’s Message, which devote most of their energies toward condemning other Christian churches, especially the Catholic Church. The majority of the Iglesia’s members are ex-Catholics. The Philippines is the only dominantly Catholic nation in the Far East, with eighty-four percent of its population belonging to the Church. Since this is its largest potential source of converts, Iglesia relies on anti-Catholic scare tactics as support for its own doctrines, which cannot withstand biblical scrutiny. The Iglesia tries to convince people of its doctrines not by proving they are right, but by attempting to prove the Catholic Church’s teachings are wrong.
Is Christ God?
The Catholic teaching that most draws Iglesia’s fire is Christ’s divinity. Like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Iglesia claims that Jesus Christ is not God but a created being.
Yet the Bible is clear: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1). We know Jesus is the Word because John 1:14 tells us, “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.” God the Father was not made flesh; it was Jesus, as even Iglesia admits. Jesus is the Word, the Word is God, therefore Jesus is God. Simple, yet Iglesia won’t accept it.
In Deuteronomy 10:17 and 1 Timothy 6:15, God the Father is called the “Lord of lords,” yet in other New Testament passages this divine title is applied directly to Jesus. In Revelation 17:14 we read, “They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings.” And in Revelation 19:13–16, John sees Jesus “clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. . . . On his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords.”
The fact that Jesus is God is indicated in numerous places in the New Testament. John 5:18 states that Jewish leaders sought to kill Jesus “because he not only broke the Sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God.” Paul also states that Jesus was equal with God (Phil. 2:6). But if Jesus is equal with the Father, and the Father is a God, then Jesus is a God. Since there is only one God, Jesus and the Father must both be one God—one God in at least two persons (the Holy Spirit, of course, is the third person of the Trinity).
The same is shown in John 8:56–59, where Jesus directly claims to be Yahweh (“I AM”). “‘Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad.’ The Jews then said to him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and you have seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.’ So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.” Jesus’ audience understood exactly what he was claiming; that is why they picked up rocks to stone him. They considered him to be b.aspheming God by claiming to be Yahweh.
The same truth is emphasized elsewhere. Paul stated that we are to live “awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13). And Peter addressed his second epistle to “those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Pet. 1:1).
Jesus is shown to be God most dramatically when Thomas, finally convinced that Jesus has risen, falls down and exclaims, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28)—an event many in Iglesia have difficulty dealing with. When confronted with this passage in a debate with Catholic Answers founder Karl Keating, Iglesia apologist Jose Ventilacion replied with a straight face, “Thomas was wrong.”
God’s Messenger?
A litmus test for any religious group is the credibility of its founder in making his claims. Felix Manalo’s credibility and, consequently, his claims, are impossible to take seriously. He claimed to be “God’s messenger,” divinely chosen to re-establish the true Church which, according to Manalo, disappeared in the first century due to apostasy. It was his role to restore numerous doctrines that the Church had abandoned. A quick look at Manalo’s background shows where these doctrines came from: Manalo stole them from other quasi-Christian religious sects.
Manalo was baptized a Catholic, but he left the Church as a teen. He became a Protestant, going through five different denominations, including the Seventh-Day Adventists. Finally, Manalo started his own church in 1914. In 1919, he left the Philippines because he wanted to learn more about religion. He came to America, to study with Protestants, whom Iglesia would later declare to be apostates, just like Catholics. Why, five years after being called by God to be his “last messenger,” did Manalo go to the U.S. to learn from apostates? What could God’s messenger learn from a group that, according to Iglesia, had departed from the true faith?
The explanation is that, contrary to his later claims, Manalo did not believe himself to be God’s final messenger in 1914. He didn’t use the last messenger doctrine until 1922. He appears to have adopted the messenger doctrine in response to a schism in the Iglesia movement. The schism was led by Teogilo Ora, one of its early ministers. Manalo appears to have developed the messenger doctrine to accumulate power and re-assert his leadership in the church.
This poses a problem for Iglesia, because if Manalo had been the new messenger called by God in 1914, why didn’t he tell anybody prior to 1922? Because he didn’t think of it until 1922. His situation in this respect parallels that of Mormonism’s founder Joseph Smith, who claimed that when he was a boy, God appeared to him in a vision and told him all existing churches were corrupt and he was not to join them, that he would lead a movement to restore God’s true Church. But historical records show that Smith did join an inquirer’s class at an established Protestant church after his supposed vision from God. It was only in later years that Smith came up with his version of the “true messenger” doctrine, proving as much of an embarrassment for the Mormon church as Manalo’s similar doctrine does for Iglesia.
Iglesia Prophesied?
A pillar of Iglesia belief is that its emergence in the Philippines was prophesied in the Bible. This idea is supposedly found in Isaiah 43:5–6, which states, “Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and from the west I will gather you; I will say to the north, ‘Give up,’ and the south, ‘Do not withhold; bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the end of the earth.’”
Iglesia argues that in this verse, Isaiah is referring to the “far east” and that this is the place where the “Church of Christ” will emerge in the last days. This point is constantly repeated in Iglesia literature: “The prophecy stated that God’s children shall come from the far east” (Pasugo, March 1975, 6).
But the phrase “far east” is not in the text. In fact, in the Tagalog (Filipino) translation, as well as in the original Hebrew, the words “far” and “east” are not even found in the same verse, yet the Iglesia recklessly combine the two verses to translate “far east.” Using this fallacious technique, Iglesia claims that the far east refers to the Philippines.
Iglesia is so determined to convince its followers of this “fact” that it quotes Isaiah 43:5 from an inexact paraphrase by Protestant Bible scholar James Moffatt that reads, “From the far east will I bring your offspring.” Citing this mistranslation, one Iglesia work states, “Is it not clear that you can read the words ‘far east’? Clear! Why does not the Tagalog Bible show them? That is not our fault, but that of those who translated the Tagalog Bible from English—the Catholics and Protestants” (Isang Pagbubunyag Sa Iglesia ni Cristo, 1964:131). The Iglesia accuses everyone else of mistranslating the Bible, when it is Iglesia that is taking liberties with the original language.
The Name Game
Iglesia points to its name as proof it is the true Church. They argue, “What is the name of Christ’s Church, as given in the Bible? It is the ‘Church of Christ.’ Our church is called the ‘Church of Christ.’ Therefore, ours is the Church Christ founded.”
Whether or not the exact words “Church of Christ” appear in the Bible is irrelevant, but since Iglesia makes it an issue, it is important to note that the phrase “Church of Christ” never once appears in the Bible.
The verse Iglesia most often quotes on this issue is Romans 16:16: “Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you ” (Pasugo, November 1973, 6). But the phrase in this verse is “churches of Christ.” And it’s not a technical name. Paul is referring to a collection of local churches, not giving an organizational name.
To get further “proof” of its name, Iglesia cites Acts 20:28: “Take heed therefore . . . to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his blood” (Lamsa translation; cited in Pasugo, April 1978). But the Lamsa translation is not based on the original Greek, the language in which the book of Acts was written. In Greek, the phrase is “the church of God” (tan ekklasian tou Theou) not “the church of Christ” (tan ekklasian tou Christou). Iglesia knows this, yet it continues to mislead its members.
Even if the phrase “church of Christ” did appear in the Bible, it would not help Iglesia’s case. Before Manalo started his church, there were already groups calling themselves “the Church of Christ.” There are several Protestant denominations that call themselves Church of Christ and use exactly the same argument. Of course, they aren’t the true Church for the same reason Iglesia isn’t—because they were not founded by Christ.
Did Christ’s Church Apostatize?
The doctrines upon which all Iglesia’s other doctrines depend is its teaching that Christ’s Church apostatized in the early centuries. Like Mormonism, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and other fringe groups, Iglesia asserts that the early Christian Church suffered a total apostasy. It believes in “the complete disappearance of the first-century Church of Christ and the emergence of the Catholic Church” (Pasugo, July-Aug. 1979, 8).
But Jesus promised that his Church would never apostatize. He told Peter, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18). If his Church had apostatized, then the gates of hell would have prevailed against it, making Christ a liar.
In other passages, Christ teaches the same truth. In Matthew 28:20 he said, “I am with you always even until the end of the world.” And in John 14:16, 18 he said, “And I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you forever … I will not leave you desolate.”
If Iglesia members accept the apostasy doctrine, they make Christ a liar. Since they believe Jesus Christ is not a liar, they are ignoring what Christ promised, and their doctrine contradicts Scripture.
They are, however, fulfilling Scripture. While Jesus taught that his Church would never apostatize, the Bible does teach that there will be a great apostasy, or falling away from the Church. Paul prophesies: “[Do not] be quickly shaken in mind or excited . . . to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion [Greek: apostasia] comes first” (2 Thess. 2:2–3); “Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons” (1 Tim. 4:1); and, “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own liking, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths” (2 Tim. 4:3–4). By falling away from the Church, members of Iglesia are committing precisely the kind of apostasy of which they accuse the Catholic Church.
The Bible tells us in 1 John 4:1: “Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world.” Was Felix Manalo a true prophet? Is his church the “true Church?” If we test the claims of Iglesia ni Cristo, the answer is apparent. His total apostasy doctrine is in flat contradiction to Christ’s teaching. There is no way that Iglesia ni Cristo can be the true Church of Christ.
NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004
IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004
76nonoy said
The Iglesia ni Cristo (Tagalog, “Church of Christ”) claims to be the true Church established by Christ. Felix Manalo, its founder, proclaimed himself God’s prophet. Many tiny sects today claim to be the true Church, and many individuals claim to be God’s prophet. What makes Iglesia ni Cristo different is that it is not as tiny as others.
Since it was founded in the Philippines in 1914, it has grown to more than two hundred congregations in sixty-seven countries outside the Philippines, including an expanding United States contingent. The Iglesia keeps the exact number of members secret, but it is estimated to be between three million and ten million worldwide. It is larger than the Jehovah’s Witnesses, a better known sect (which also claims to be Christ’s true Church). Iglesia is not better known, despite its numbers, because the majority of Iglesia’s members are Filipino. Virtually the only exceptions are a few non-Filipinos who have married into Iglesia families.
The organization publishes two magazines, Pasugo and God’s Message, which devote most of their energies toward condemning other Christian churches, especially the Catholic Church. The majority of the Iglesia’s members are ex-Catholics. The Philippines is the only dominantly Catholic nation in the Far East, with eighty-four percent of its population belonging to the Church. Since this is its largest potential source of converts, Iglesia relies on anti-Catholic scare tactics as support for its own doctrines, which cannot withstand biblical scrutiny. The Iglesia tries to convince people of its doctrines not by proving they are right, but by attempting to prove the Catholic Church’s teachings are wrong.
Is Christ God?
The Catholic teaching that most draws Iglesia’s fire is Christ’s divinity. Like the Jehovah’s Witnesses, Iglesia claims that Jesus Christ is not God but a created being.
Yet the Bible is clear: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God” (John 1:1). We know Jesus is the Word because John 1:14 tells us, “The Word was made flesh and dwelt among us.” God the Father was not made flesh; it was Jesus, as even Iglesia admits. Jesus is the Word, the Word is God, therefore Jesus is God. Simple, yet Iglesia won’t accept it.
In Deuteronomy 10:17 and 1 Timothy 6:15, God the Father is called the “Lord of lords,” yet in other New Testament passages this divine title is applied directly to Jesus. In Revelation 17:14 we read, “They will make war on the Lamb, and the Lamb will conquer them, for he is Lord of lords and King of kings.” And in Revelation 19:13–16, John sees Jesus “clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God. . . . On his thigh he has a name inscribed, King of kings and Lord of lords.”
The fact that Jesus is God is indicated in numerous places in the New Testament. John 5:18 states that Jewish leaders sought to kill Jesus “because he not only broke the Sabbath but also called God his Father, making himself equal with God.” Paul also states that Jesus was equal with God (Phil. 2:6). But if Jesus is equal with the Father, and the Father is a God, then Jesus is a God. Since there is only one God, Jesus and the Father must both be one God—one God in at least two persons (the Holy Spirit, of course, is the third person of the Trinity).
The same is shown in John 8:56–59, where Jesus directly claims to be Yahweh (“I AM”). “‘Your father Abraham rejoiced that he was to see my day; he saw it and was glad.’ The Jews then said to him, ‘You are not yet fifty years old, and you have seen Abraham?’ Jesus said to them, ‘Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.’ So they took up stones to throw at him; but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple.” Jesus’ audience understood exactly what he was claiming; that is why they picked up rocks to stone him. They considered him to be b.aspheming God by claiming to be Yahweh.
The same truth is emphasized elsewhere. Paul stated that we are to live “awaiting our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ” (Titus 2:13). And Peter addressed his second epistle to “those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours in the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ” (2 Pet. 1:1).
Jesus is shown to be God most dramatically when Thomas, finally convinced that Jesus has risen, falls down and exclaims, “My Lord and my God!” (John 20:28)—an event many in Iglesia have difficulty dealing with. When confronted with this passage in a debate with Catholic Answers founder Karl Keating, Iglesia apologist Jose Ventilacion replied with a straight face, “Thomas was wrong.”
God’s Messenger?
A litmus test for any religious group is the credibility of its founder in making his claims. Felix Manalo’s credibility and, consequently, his claims, are impossible to take seriously. He claimed to be “God’s messenger,” divinely chosen to re-establish the true Church which, according to Manalo, disappeared in the first century due to apostasy. It was his role to restore numerous doctrines that the Church had abandoned. A quick look at Manalo’s background shows where these doctrines came from: Manalo stole them from other quasi-Christian religious sects.
Manalo was baptized a Catholic, but he left the Church as a teen. He became a Protestant, going through five different denominations, including the Seventh-Day Adventists. Finally, Manalo started his own church in 1914. In 1919, he left the Philippines because he wanted to learn more about religion. He came to America, to study with Protestants, whom Iglesia would later declare to be apostates, just like Catholics. Why, five years after being called by God to be his “last messenger,” did Manalo go to the U.S. to learn from apostates? What could God’s messenger learn from a group that, according to Iglesia, had departed from the true faith?
The explanation is that, contrary to his later claims, Manalo did not believe himself to be God’s final messenger in 1914. He didn’t use the last messenger doctrine until 1922. He appears to have adopted the messenger doctrine in response to a schism in the Iglesia movement. The schism was led by Teogilo Ora, one of its early ministers. Manalo appears to have developed the messenger doctrine to accumulate power and re-assert his leadership in the church.
This poses a problem for Iglesia, because if Manalo had been the new messenger called by God in 1914, why didn’t he tell anybody prior to 1922? Because he didn’t think of it until 1922. His situation in this respect parallels that of Mormonism’s founder Joseph Smith, who claimed that when he was a boy, God appeared to him in a vision and told him all existing churches were corrupt and he was not to join them, that he would lead a movement to restore God’s true Church. But historical records show that Smith did join an inquirer’s class at an established Protestant church after his supposed vision from God. It was only in later years that Smith came up with his version of the “true messenger” doctrine, proving as much of an embarrassment for the Mormon church as Manalo’s similar doctrine does for Iglesia.
Iglesia Prophesied?
A pillar of Iglesia belief is that its emergence in the Philippines was prophesied in the Bible. This idea is supposedly found in Isaiah 43:5–6, which states, “Fear not, for I am with you; I will bring your offspring from the east, and from the west I will gather you; I will say to the north, ‘Give up,’ and the south, ‘Do not withhold; bring my sons from afar and my daughters from the end of the earth.’”
Iglesia argues that in this verse, Isaiah is referring to the “far east” and that this is the place where the “Church of Christ” will emerge in the last days. This point is constantly repeated in Iglesia literature: “The prophecy stated that God’s children shall come from the far east” (Pasugo, March 1975, 6).
But the phrase “far east” is not in the text. In fact, in the Tagalog (Filipino) translation, as well as in the original Hebrew, the words “far” and “east” are not even found in the same verse, yet the Iglesia recklessly combine the two verses to translate “far east.” Using this fallacious technique, Iglesia claims that the far east refers to the Philippines.
Iglesia is so determined to convince its followers of this “fact” that it quotes Isaiah 43:5 from an inexact paraphrase by Protestant Bible scholar James Moffatt that reads, “From the far east will I bring your offspring.” Citing this mistranslation, one Iglesia work states, “Is it not clear that you can read the words ‘far east’? Clear! Why does not the Tagalog Bible show them? That is not our fault, but that of those who translated the Tagalog Bible from English—the Catholics and Protestants” (Isang Pagbubunyag Sa Iglesia ni Cristo, 1964:131). The Iglesia accuses everyone else of mistranslating the Bible, when it is Iglesia that is taking liberties with the original language.
The Name Game
Iglesia points to its name as proof it is the true Church. They argue, “What is the name of Christ’s Church, as given in the Bible? It is the ‘Church of Christ.’ Our church is called the ‘Church of Christ.’ Therefore, ours is the Church Christ founded.”
Whether or not the exact words “Church of Christ” appear in the Bible is irrelevant, but since Iglesia makes it an issue, it is important to note that the phrase “Church of Christ” never once appears in the Bible.
The verse Iglesia most often quotes on this issue is Romans 16:16: “Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ greet you ” (Pasugo, November 1973, 6). But the phrase in this verse is “churches of Christ.” And it’s not a technical name. Paul is referring to a collection of local churches, not giving an organizational name.
To get further “proof” of its name, Iglesia cites Acts 20:28: “Take heed therefore . . . to feed the church of Christ which he has purchased with his blood” (Lamsa translation; cited in Pasugo, April 1978). But the Lamsa translation is not based on the original Greek, the language in which the book of Acts was written. In Greek, the phrase is “the church of God” (tan ekklasian tou Theou) not “the church of Christ” (tan ekklasian tou Christou). Iglesia knows this, yet it continues to mislead its members.
Even if the phrase “church of Christ” did appear in the Bible, it would not help Iglesia’s case. Before Manalo started his church, there were already groups calling themselves “the Church of Christ.” There are several Protestant denominations that call themselves Church of Christ and use exactly the same argument. Of course, they aren’t the true Church for the same reason Iglesia isn’t—because they were not founded by Christ.
Did Christ’s Church Apostatize?
The doctrines upon which all Iglesia’s other doctrines depend is its teaching that Christ’s Church apostatized in the early centuries. Like Mormonism, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, and other fringe groups, Iglesia asserts that the early Christian Church suffered a total apostasy. It believes in “the complete disappearance of the first-century Church of Christ and the emergence of the Catholic Church” (Pasugo, July-Aug. 1979, 8).
But Jesus promised that his Church would never apostatize. He told Peter, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it” (Matt. 16:18). If his Church had apostatized, then the gates of hell would have prevailed against it, making Christ a liar.
In other passages, Christ teaches the same truth. In Matthew 28:20 he said, “I am with you always even until the end of the world.” And in John 14:16, 18 he said, “And I will pray to the Father, and he will give you another Counselor, to be with you forever … I will not leave you desolate.”
If Iglesia members accept the apostasy doctrine, they make Christ a liar. Since they believe Jesus Christ is not a liar, they are ignoring what Christ promised, and their doctrine contradicts Scripture.
They are, however, fulfilling Scripture. While Jesus taught that his Church would never apostatize, the Bible does teach that there will be a great apostasy, or falling away from the Church. Paul prophesies: “[Do not] be quickly shaken in mind or excited . . . to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion [Greek: apostasia] comes first” (2 Thess. 2:2–3); “Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by giving heed to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons” (1 Tim. 4:1); and, “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own liking, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths” (2 Tim. 4:3–4). By falling away from the Church, members of Iglesia are committing precisely the kind of apostasy of which they accuse the Catholic Church.
The Bible tells us in 1 John 4:1: “Do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are of God; for many false prophets have gone out into the world.” Was Felix Manalo a true prophet? Is his church the “true Church?” If we test the claims of Iglesia ni Cristo, the answer is apparent. His total apostasy doctrine is in flat contradiction to Christ’s teaching. There is no way that Iglesia ni Cristo can be the true Church of Christ.
NIHIL OBSTAT: I have concluded that the materials
presented in this work are free of doctrinal or moral errors.
Bernadeane Carr, STL, Censor Librorum, August 10, 2004
IMPRIMATUR: In accord with 1983 CIC 827
permission to publish this work is hereby granted.
+Robert H. Brom, Bishop of San Diego, August 10, 2004
rechie caberte said
dun sa ibang sekta n puro pghhnap lng ng mali ang gngawa sa simbahang KATOLIKO sna mg aral kau ng mbuti kng anu history ng kinaaniban nyong sekta.gaya ng sa amin klarong naipaliwanag ng CFD ang history ng aming relihiyun sa simulat sapul hanggang sa ngaun,sa katunayan nka 200 mhigit na kming Pope,simula noong sa kpanahunan ni San Pedro hanggang sa ksalukuyan Pope Benedict XVI.Matanong ko lng sa inyo Non-Catholic kya nyo bng mpatunayan na kayo ang ang tunay na iglesia basi sa kasaysayan????????????????just asking……GOD Bless us ALL(Catholics & non-catholics)
reymark said
bkt? ba galit na galit ang mga INC sa Katoliko. ano ba dahilan nila. ilag na ilag sa mga katoliko. hikayat naman ng hikayat. nakikita nila ang BAHO ng katoliko. sila din naman may BAHO. patago nga lang. samantala ang Katoliko hindi tinatago ang BAHO.ang Katoliko BAHO na kung may BAHO. ang INC itatago pano i ulat sila. ang Katoliko kung saang relihiyon ka masaya doon ka. hindi nangungumbinsi. sa Katoliko pag natulungan wala lang. sa INC tuldok lang ang nagawa may utang na loob kana. ang Katoliko HINDI naninira sa loob ng simbahan HINDI naninira ng ibang relihiyon. ang INC wala ibang ginawa lagi nilang tinitira ang mga Katoliko. kya minsan hindi maintindihan ang ugali ng mga INC. ang Katoliko HINDI namimili ng mga tutulungan in short walang PINIPILING relihiyon! TAPOS!
reymark said
kay miss ka_ye ok lang un minsan nagkakamali ang Katoliko natural 22o taung tao.HINDI tau PAIMBABAW.
reymark said
gaon din naman sila. hnd naniniwala sa mga celebration! cebrate naman ng celebrate. like birthday. lalo na PASKO buong mundo nagdiwang ng PASKO sila hnd? syempre sila din patago nga lang hehehe……. kaya sa mga Katoliko na pinaparinggan ng mga INC thank you lang ng thank you kc 22o. 22o taung tao. sabihin kau rin minsan dba!
reymark said
Katoliko lang ba ang relihiyon sa mundo. lagi nilang tinitira. ibang relihiyon naman. bkt kc TAKOT sila.
reymark said
Katoliko din naman yang c manalo.
reymark said
ang KATOLIKO hindi NABUBUHAY sa SARILI lamang. MARUNONG pa MAKISAMA sa IBA! dahil lahat may pananagutan. hindi katulad ng iba jan. puro BIBLIA SARILI lamang ang INIINTINDI. HINDI matutulungan kc hindi INC. ang KATOLIKO kahit sino tinutulungan. WALA ngang PINIPILING RELIHIYON! puro parinig wala naman mapatunayan. mapagmalinis may BAHO din naman. puro BIBLIA.BIBLIA din ng KATOLIKO ang binabasa iba iba na ang kasulatan. kaya nga ang DAMING CONVERT na KATOLIKO kc marunong MAKISAMA.
REY DE LEON ANG said
Para sa mga INC member, check ninyo ang link na ito http://anglihimngiglesianikristo.wordpress.com/2012/03/07/5/
Makikita ninyo dyan ang mga itinago ng inyong Sugo na si Manalo.
Binulag kayo mga kapatid…nawa’y magising na kayo bago kayo tuluyang maligaw
L_fourteen said
ive been attending the INC doctrine, & ive read their so called 10 commandments..there’s a big difference between the 10 commandments of the catholic..im a catholic but my bf was an INC.. they said its a big sin for them as an INC to get involved with a non INC.. where does our 10 commanments came from?
catholicfaithdefender said
Ang karaniwang kamalian ng mga kapatid nating mga protestante ay ang pagtatanong na may kasamang conclusion – ito po ay tinatawag na Fallacy of Assumption. Sa tanong sa itaas na “saan mababasa sa Biblia na dapat sambahin ang mga larawan?” ay isa sa mga halimbawa ng Fallacy of Assumption”. Dapat linawin natin na HINDI DOCTRINA NG SIMBAHANG KATOLIKO ANG PAGSAMBA (BILANG DIOS) SA MGA IMAHE O LARAWAN; narito po ang mga ebedensya:
-Denzinger; The Sources of Catholic Dogma; Documents of the Roman Pontiffs and of the Councils; Council of Nicea II 787; Ecumenical VII (against the Iconoclasts)
Definition of the Sacred Images and Tradition *; ACTION VII
302 (I. Definition) . . . We, continuing in the regal path, and following the divinely inspired teaching of our Holy Fathers, and the tradition of the Catholic Church, for we know that this is of the Holy Spirit who certainly dwells in it, define in all certitude and diligence that as the figure of the honored and life-giving Cross, so the venerable and holy images, the ones from tinted materials and from marble as those from other material, must be suitably placed in the holy churches of God, both on sacred vessels and vestments, and on the walls and on the altars, at home and on the streets, namely such images of our Lord Jesus Christ, God and Savior, and of our undefiled lady, or holy Mother of God, and of the honorable angels, and, at the same time, of all the saints and of holy men. For, how much more frequently through the imaginal formation they are seen, so much more quickly are those who contemplate these, raised to the memory and desire of the originals of these, to kiss and to render honorable veneration to them, not however, to grant true latria according to our faith, which is proper to divine nature alone; but just as to the figure of the revered and life-giving Cross and to the holy gospels, and to the other sacred monuments, let an oblation of incense and lights be made to give honor to these as was the pious custom with the ancients. “For the honor of the image passes to the original”; * and he who shows reverence to the image, shows reverence to the substance of Him depicted in it.
– Harmony Media, Inc.; 1995; P.O. Box 138; Gervais, OR 97026; Church History; “St. John Damascene (c. 675-749), monk and priest, was the great doctor of the Church of the period. His “Three Discourses On images” made the points that: (1) though God cannot be represented by an image, Christ, the Blessed Virgin, and the saints could be depicted with approximate fidelity; (2) it is licit to revere images, provided that the veneration transcends the material icon to the prototype; (3) it is profitable to revere images, which can instruct, inspire, and exercise a certain intercession with God; and (4) that to avoid error one ought to distinguish between strict worship paid to God alone, and veneration of a person or thing as related to God
-Fr. M. Guzman; Catholic Catechism; 1995: #563 “It is right to show respect to the statues and pictures of Christ and of the saints, just as it is right to show respect to the images of those whom we honor or love on earth.”
-Fr. M. Guzman; Catholic Catechism; 1995: #564 “We honor Christ and the saints when we pray before the crucifix, relics and sacred images because we honor the persons they represent; we adore Christ and venerate the saints.”
-Fr. M. Guzman; Catholic Catechism; 1995: #565 “We do not pray to the crucifix or to the images and relics of the saints, but to the persons they represent.”
-Atty. Teofilo Tumulak; Dili Ang Tanan; 1985; Page 113 “Hinoon ang idolatry (Exodo 20:3) nagapadayon, apan dili sabton nga ang mga Katolico nakasupak niini kay ang pag-ampo nila sa gilarawanan dili man ingon nga Dios.” (Datapuwat ang idolatry (Exo. 20:3)ay nagpapatuloy; peru hindi ibig sabihin na ang mga Katolico ay nakalabag nito dahil sa pagdadasal nila sa nilalarawan ng imahe (ng mga Santo) ay hindi bilang isang Dios.)
Napatunayan napo natin na hindi sinasamba ng mga Katoiko ang mga larawan bilang Dios; kaya mali po ang tanong ng ating mga kapatid na protestante. Kung gayon tayo bang mga Katoliko ay hindi sumunod sa utos ng Dios sa Exo. 20:4-5? Mga kapatid sumunod po ang Katoliko sa utos na yan; eh kung sumunod ang mga Katoliko sa Exo. 20:4-5; eh bakit may mga larawan o emahi sa kanilang simbahan (marahil yan ang susunod na tanong ng ating mga kaibigan)???
Dapat mo nating malaman na kung tayo ay magbabasa ng Biblia; hindi po natin dapat limitahan ang ating mga pananaw sa mga bagay na inaakala natin na tama. Tulad nalang sa argumentong ito:
Bawal ang mga imahe (Exo. 20:4-5)
Ang mga Katoliko ay may mga imahe
Therefore; Ang mga imahe ng katoliko ay bawal
Sa itaas ay ang halimbawa ng fallacy of generalization ng mga kapatid nating mga protestante dahil, ang Biblia bagaman ay nakasaad ng mga talata na bawal ang mga emahi; ay may roon ding mga nakasulat na utos ng Dios na pagpagawa ng mga imahi; narito po ang mga ebedinsya:
Exo. 25:1, 18-22 (RSV) “The LORD said to Moses; 8 And you shall make two cherubim of gold; of hammered work shall you make them, on the two ends of the mercy seat. 19 Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of one piece with the mercy seat shall you make the cherubim on its two ends. 20 The cherubim shall spread out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy seat with their wings, their faces one to another; toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be. 21 And you shall put the mercy seat on the top of the ark; and in the ark you shall put the testimony that I shall give you. 22 There I will meet with you, and from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubim that are upon the ark of the testimony, I will speak with you of all that I will give you in commandment for the people of Israel.”
Ano ba ang mga cherubim? Ito po ay mga anghil; at utos ng Dios na magpagawa ng mga statwa ng mga anghil; narito po ang mga ebidensya:
Exo. 25:18-22 (Living Bible) “Then make images of angels, using beaten gold, and place them at the two ends of the lid of the Ark. They shall be one piece with the mercy place, and shall have wings spread out above the gold lid. Install the lid upon the Ark, and the place within the Ark the tables of stone I shall give you. And I will meet with you there and talk with you from above the place of mercy between the cherubim; and the Ark will contain the laws of my covenant. There I will tell you my commandments for the people of Israel.” (Emphasize added)
At saan pa ilalagay ang mga imahi ng mga anghil? Eh ang Biblia po ang ating papasagutin:
2 Cron:3:1; 7-14 (RSV) “3:1Then Solomon began to build the house of the LORD in Jerusalem on Mount Moriah, where the LORD had appeared to David his father, at the place that David had appointed, on the threshing floor of Ornan the Jebusite.” “3: 7-14 “So he lined the house with gold–its beams, its thresholds, its walls, and its doors; and he carved cherubim on the walls. And he made the most holy place; its length, corresponding to the breadth of the house, was twenty cubits, and its breadth was twenty cubits; he overlaid it with six hundred talents of fine gold. 9 The weight of the nails was one shekel* to fifty shekels of gold. And he overlaid the upper chambers with gold. In the most holy place he made two cherubim of wood* and overlaid* them with gold. 11 The wings of the cherubim together extended twenty cubits: one wing of the one, of five cubits, touched the wall of the house, and its other wing, of five cubits, touched the wing of the other cherub; 12 and of this cherub, one wing, of five cubits, touched the wall of the house, and the other wing, also of five cubits, was joined to the wing of the first cherub. 13 The wings of these cherubim extended twenty cubits; the cherubim* stood on their feet, facing the nave. 14 And he made the veil of blue and purple and crimson fabrics and fine linen, and worked cherubim on it.
Ano po ang nakalagay sa Biblia??? Sa templo ng Dios ilalagay ang mga imahi ng mga anghil!…
Tingnan po natin kung ano ang nakasaad sa ibang version ng Biblia:
2 Cron. 3:7 (The Living Bible) “All the walls, beam, doors, and the thresholds throughout the Temple were plated with gold, with angels engrave on the walls.”
2 Cron. 3:10 (The Living Bible) “Within the innermost, the Holy of Holies, Solomon placed two sculptured statues of angels, and plated them with gold.”
APAKALINAW NA TAYONG MGA KATOLIKO AY SUMUSUNOD LAMANG SA BIBLICAL TEMPLE OF GOD SA OLD TESTAMENT!!!
Eh, sumunod kaya ang mga protestante ditto?????????????????
At tungkol po naman sa paratang na tayong mga Katoliko ay Binago raw po natin ang sampung utos ng Diyos… Abay napakalinaw na talagang walang alam itong mga kapatid nating mga protestante sa Biblia; dahil dalawa po ang nakasaad/version ng sampong utos ng Dios diyan sa Biblia. Ang isa po ay makikita sa Exo. 20:4-17 at ang isa naman ay makikita sa Deut. 5:6-21; at pakaalaman natin na tayong mga Katoliko ay sumunod sa Deut. 5:6-21 na version. At dapat rin nating tandaan na ang sampong utos ay walang insaktong talaan ng bilang o numbers kaya may pagkaka-iba ang 10 commandments ng mga protestante; sa Katoliko/Luteranismo version.
Nasagutan po ang tanong at abangan po ang susunod na mga bahagi…….
Salamat pos a inyong pagbasa…… Abangan po ang pangalawang bahagi….
Rz said
Tanong ko sa mga palagi na lang nagbabato ng certain issues sa CFD.
To all INC. Kung totoo ang inyong religion, Bakit mismo ang leader niyo ay nang galing sa Catholics? Yun muna? Siguro kasi kaya niyo nasasabi na sobrang ayos ng religion niyo kasi? MR MANALO already knew lahat ng kamalian ng church. If you claim that your church is perfect? LET’s all laugh then? Yung mismong leader niyo nga hindi perfect e? And tanong ko din? Diba kaya siya gumawa ng bagong religion kasi ayaw niya sa catholics? Nagets niyo ba yung sentence na AYAW? Parang in the sense na ayaw na ng isang bata sa isang brand ng lollipop kaya gumawa siya ng sarili niyang lollipop? Hindi na kaialangang idefend ng cfd ang catholicism. Tanungin niyo na lang kung bakit lumipat yung LEADER niyo. 🙂 Kasi diba nakita niya yung mali? So in short? nakita niyang mali si Jesus christ ganun ba yun? 😀
catholicfaithdefender said
APAKALINAW NA TAYONG MGA KATOLIKO AY SUMUSUNOD LAMANG SA BIBLICAL TEMPLE OF GOD SA OLD TESTAMENT!!!
Eh, sumunod kaya ang mga protestante ditto?????????????????
At tungkol po naman sa paratang na tayong mga Katoliko ay Binago raw po natin ang sampung utos ng Diyos… Abay napakalinaw na talagang walang alam itong mga kapatid nating mga protestante sa Biblia; dahil dalawa po ang nakasaad/version ng sampong utos ng Dios diyan sa Biblia. Ang isa po ay makikita sa Exo. 20:4-17 at ang isa naman ay makikita sa Deut. 5:6-21; at pakaalaman natin na tayong mga Katoliko ay sumunod sa Deut. 5:6-21 na version. At dapat rin nating tandaan na ang sampong utos ay walang insaktong talaan ng bilang o numbers kaya may pagkaka-iba ang 10 commandments ng mga protestante; sa Katoliko/Luteranismo version.
Nasagutan po ang tanong at abangan po ang susunod na mga bahagi…….
Salamat pos a inyong pagbasa…… Abangan po ang pangalawang bahagi….
Dnalor Acenas said
Pakisagot sa mga INM using the king James Version 1611 anong talata sa bibia na si Felix Manalo ay huling mensahero sa Dios na magtatayo ng IGlesia ni Cristo sa Pilipinas sa 1914. using only the KJV. kasi ang doktrina nyo kapag hindi naka sulat sa Biblia word for word ay hindi natin paniniwalaan ayos ba mga kapatid. ikaw JASON ABALO taga Bohol manta. BIBLIA Lanag kapatid. “2nd question Kaylan naging sugo si MANALO sa isinilang na sya? o sa 1914 pa. o sa Katoliko pa sya.
Darwin Delatado said
My biggest question is, why does INC is so insecure with the Catholic Church? Why do INC keep on trying to hurl stones against the Catholic Church, is it because it is seated up above the rest? It is true that when you are up above there, many will try to drag you down. In many INC preachings they speak none but criticisms against the Catholic church, does that mean that you have nothing to offer solid so you need to attempt to destroy the faith of the people from the Catholic Church so you could take them away with you. Leave the Catholics in Peace, And you will (INC) at least may find peace within your church if you do poses it. Preach by your own doctrine establish and prove them if you have the truth to support it. For you may exhaust everything but you can never destroy the Universal Church.
janrey salan said
daghang salamat sa cfd.topics here are inspiring. im a catholic, and proud to b 1.
Jake said
…sa laging debate laging nananalo Iglesia no Cristo..lalong dumadami kaanib into…ano nman inalagay nio dto pwang kalukuhan…ang mga sinungaling sa impyerno dadalhin…sabi nga sa bibya magingat sa mga sinungaling
catholicfaithdefender said
In your dreams jake….. hahahaha grabi ang pagka brain wash sa iyo ng mga ministro ni manalo…..
Ashen said
and now I’m enlightened. I have learned a lot from you guys. Thanks.
Rosita Menorca said
Are you an INC but having doubts about the church’s teachings?
Are you burdened by the unreasonable demands of the administration? You are not alone. We can help. Join us here: https://www.reddit.com/r/exIglesiaNiCristo/