FINAL EXCHANGE WITH AN ANONYMOUS HERETIC
By Fr. Abe Arganiosa, CRS.
Link: http://thesplendorofthechurch.blogspot.com/2009/02/final-exchange-with-anonymous-heretic.html
Madonna and Child
So, it appears to me that you are abandoning the discussion on Abortion and escalating the exchange into several other topics. Well, glad that you brought them out. But before going point by point in your last message let me return to the previous one wherein there is a line that requires clarification:
“This is the typical Catholic position: life is sacred when in the womb, and then it is not so sacred anymore. “
It is quite obvious that your Modern Prophets such as Kung, Sobrino, Curran, Haight and Boff have blinded not only your Catholic Faith but also your natural vision. Look at these:
The Catholic Church is the defender of life in Conception,
The Catholic Church is the defender of Life during the Pregnancies,
the Catholic Church is the defender of life of the Orphans and the Needy,
the Catholic Church is the keeper of the lepers and the sick,
the Catholic Church is the caretaker of the abandoned,
the Catholic Church is the defender of life against Death Penalty,
the Catholic Church is the defender of life against killing the Sick and the Elderly such as in Euthanasia
The Catholic Church serves, protects, defends, promotes life from Conception to Natural Death, from Womb to Tomb… So, your statement is filled with lies. I expect that statement to come from enemies of the Church such as the Communists and the Atheists but not from a so-called Catholic like you. May be you are a fake. You seem to be ignorant of the activities of your Church. In the Philippines alone there are more houses for charities owned by the Catholic Church than by the government. In India even if majority is Hindu the Catholic Church is highly respected because of the works of charities for life through the hands of Her missionaries.
My suggestion for you is BE REAL.
Now let me address you latest mail:
Anonymous said… Dear Abe, sorry for not replying earlier, but I was busy studying your founder. I think he was a free man and he was not afraid to think with his own brain.
Thank you very much for studying the life of our Founder St. Jerome Emiliani. Indeed, he was a free man. Freed by God through the intercession of Mary. Freed from his sins and pride and earthly glory and became a man of God, defender and protector of the weak children. He found his freedom in God, in devotion to the Blessed Virgin Mary and in fidelity to the Catholic Church. HE DIDN’T BECOME A TRAITOR CATHOLIC.
I agree that he was not afraid to think with his own brain but he never allowed his brain to be contaminated by heresies and immoral thoughts of RIPPING THE BABIES OUT OF THEIR MOTHERS’ WOMBS. His brain was firmly founded on the Truth of the Catholic Faith. He was one of the saints who strengthened the Church during time of wars and countered the rise of Reformation in Europe.
For example, in his prayer he writes: ” Our dear father, our Lord Jesus Christ”. It seems to me that he was not afraid to use his brain and to think out of the box.
It seems that you are ignorant of Biblical Imagery that is why you don’t know the origin of that Opening Line in the Prayer of St. Jerome Emiliani. You thought that it is unconventional when in fact it is Biblical and Liturgical because St. Jerome’s spirituality is focused on Jesus as the perfect image of the ‘Fatherhood of God’. Actually, the Biblical root of that prayer is found in one of the most beautiful and most famous Messianic Prophecy read all over the world as First Reading during Christmas Day — Isaiah 9:6 “For a CHILD IS BORN to us, and a son is given to us, and the government is upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, God the Mighty, the Father of the world to come, the Prince of Peace.” [Douay-Rheim Version]
St. Jerome did think out of the box but he never went too far as to spouse heresies and immoral teachings. He valued human life so much that he died serving it. He died early because he was serving the sick and was burying the corpse of the dead lying on the streets at the time when Alcohol and Anti Bacteria medicines were not yet discovered. He contacted the desease himself and died calling the name of Jesus.
To claim that St. Jerome will advocate the pagan Abortion is like dreaming of imprisoning the wind. It is not just a stretch of imagination it is delusional. Your modern prophets attack the Pope and the Church but St. Jerome served God, the Church and the Pope with all his heart and strength until death.
On the other hand, you, a follower of St. Jerome, are afraid to think with your brain and keep quoting the Vatican to justify your positions and ideas.
I reject your beloved Abortion because it is EVIL. It is MURDER. It is KILLING OF INNOCENT. I take that position as a human being and as a NATURAL REACTION of Living Beings such as dogs, chicken, birds, pelican and many others. Your position is unworthy even on the level of Animality. May I ask you? Why do Bears protect their young? Did they learn it from the Vatican? How about the dogs? Are all the dogs of the world Vatican trained? How about the chicken? Are they Vatican educated? Your position is Un-Animal, Inhuman, UnChristian and Un-Catholic.
You don’t like me to quote the Vatican to justify my positions and ideas. How about you? You are clinging to the names of Sobrino, Kung, Curran, Haight et al for your position and ideas so you are a puppet of these heretics. You are afraid to use your own brain, your own Catholic Faith, your own Christianity even your own Animality because you have become a slave to the thoughts of your modern day prophets who are traitors to the Pope and to the Church and to the teachings of Christ. You are willing to abandon your Church and your Pope in order to sell your soul to the likes of Kung and Curran. I’d rather practice Kung-Fu and dance the Curacha rather than be with those demons.
I am not ashamed of quoting the Vatican because since the early life of the Church, the Bishop of Rome is considered as the ‘presider in charity’ in the Universal Church. Disputes in matters of Faith and Morals were always brought to the Bishop of Rome for definitive decisions. Besides, I find the arguments of the Popes as more reasonable and more faithful to teaching of the Jesus of Nazareth and of the Apostles and of the Prophets than your so-called modern prophets. If the Vatican will advocate Abortion like you do, then I will renounce it too. Thanks be to God, the Lord Jesus has promised special protection for the Blessed Peter: “The Gate of Hell Shall Not Prevail Against It”. You must have forgotten how we started this exchanges you reacted to my post about Obama. So, you love Obama more than the Pope. You prefer Washington than Rome. Your faith is political based not religious based. I chose Rome over Washington because it is the Church of Peter and Paul.
Then, it seems tho me that he was very open to lay people.
Of course he is open to lay people because St. Jerome Emiliani is a LAYMAN. He was never ordained a priest, contrary to some biography appearing on the internet. He remained a lay person throughout his life. He was the founder and head of the Order during his lifetime even though there were priests members then. But, he respected the authority of priests under him especially their God-given authority on the Sacraments, and on their part the priests, some of whom were former Nobles like Jerome who left the life of grandeur, respected Jerome’s administrative authority.
In our Church women are still treated as second class citizens…
May be in your church but not in THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. Women are honored and respected and treated with love and care in ‘OUR’ CHURCH.
The highest honor given to a human being after Jesus the God-Man is bestowed on a Woman — MARY OF NAZARETH — The Virgin who conceived and gave birth to the Messiah. All Catholic males, priests or lay, are bowing before her and calling her name in praise — Ave Maria! Hail, Mary full of grace! The fullness of grace is given to a woman. Imagine the male priests, monks, altar servers, soldiers are all kneeling with Rosaries in hand reciting Hail Mary countless of times. The Catholic Church commissioned the greatest artists such as painters of the calibre of Michelangelo, Leonardo, Raphael, Fra Angelico to depict her in arts while the likes of Mozart, Beethoven, Vivaldi depicted her life in music. Other Christian groups have nothing to compare with that. They are bereft of honor for the greatest of all women.
Not only Mary the Mother of Jesus. The Catholic Church contrary to the claims of Dan Brown honors Mary Magdalene after Mary of Nazareth. She is also depicted in Arts, streets and cities and municipalities in Catholic Countries such as the Philippines are named after her, her feast is celebrated with joy and expressions of love. Churches were built in her honor – chapels, oratories, basilicas of great beauties were founded to honor the first witness of the Resurrection.
The number of female saints are too numerous to be counted. Our Catholic women saints were great writers, theologians and mystics such as St. Teresa of Avila, St. Catherine of Siena and St. Therese of the Child Jesus. All great saints, all declared Doctors of the Church. Other Christian groups never honored their women in such a sublime way, elevating them to the honors of the Altar. St. Catherine of Siena was even castigating, reprimanding the Pope of her time but she was also respectful of his authority or that of the priests.
You might claim that Catholic women are not given enough leadership than their Protestant counterparts. O no, that is a misimpression. Catholic Women are more powerful than their Protestant counterparts. The Abbess and the Mother General of the Religious Orders like Mother Teresa of Calcutta and her successors are top CEOs of their Congregations, Monasteries and Orders many of which own and run several Universities, Colleges, Hospitals, Orphanages, Leprosarium, Home for the Aged, etc. Almost all these Orders and Congregations are international. They are very influential and well respected in the Church and in the Society. Here in the Philippines the Assumption College of the Assumption Sisters have produced the two female presidents of the Republic of the Philippines while the Protestant U.S.A. has none.
The number of Catholic female theologians are also as numerous as those of the Protestants. The lay Catholic women are also prominent leaders in the organizations in the Church. My sister himself was a former president of the Parish Pastoral Council and during her tenure [even until now that she relinquished the office] she was respected by the priests and the males in the parish. At home, my mother was respected very much and was never treated as second class citizen.
I grew up in Catholic schools and women are always treated with respect. Any boy who showed disrespect to the girls automatically talked to seriously by the adviser teacher and the guidance counsellor. Respect of women were instilled in our hearts and mind and I don’t know who taught you that line that women are second class citizens in our Church. May be we do not belong to the same Church. Well, since I’m not anonymous and truly a certified Catholic priest, may be you are not a priest or not Catholic at all.
To add, in our Somascan School in Sorsogon — the Aemilianum College — the High School principal is a woman who is with us for the past 20 years. She is loved and respected by all. When she commands, all of us including the priests obey. And in College Department, the Dean is another woman. A prominent Doctor of Education, a well respected lady in the school and in the society. It’s the same. When she gives order we all obey.
and they are denied of the gift of PRIESTHOOD. Why? Just because the Vatican says so!!!!!Please, let us be open to the gifts of the Spirit and value the ingenuity of the feminine spirit.
Are you crazy? You are showing ignorance of the Catholic Church reasons why women cannot be ordained as priests. WOMEN CANNOT BE ORDAINED PRIESTS BECAUSE JESUS ORDAINED ONLY MALES TO THE HIERARCHY OF THE APOSTLES. And, when the Apostles were spreading the faith, they chose only males to be their successors and this is unbroken for two thousand years. The Pope says that HE HAS NO POWER TO VIOLATE THE DECISION OF CHRIST THE LORD. Mary of Nazareth, Mary of Magdala, Mary and Martha of Bethany, etc. were also leaders of the Church but not as priests. MARY OF NAZARETH, IN FACT, WAS HIGHER THAN THE APOSTLES IN DIGNITY, HONOR AND IN SANCTITY BUT THE LORD JESUS DIDN’T GIVE HER THE AUTHORITY OF PRIESTHOOD.
If you want to blame someone for the decision blame Jesus not the Vatican. You are barking on the wrong tree. You can also blame God because in the Old Testament the priests of the surrounding countries include women but the Order of Melchizedek and the Order of Aaron that He established in Israel was ALL MALES. In the New Testament, Jesus assumed the Order of Melchizedek and it is also ALL MALES. So, to choose female priesthood is to diverse into pagan culture. I want to remain in the Judaeo-Christian Faith while you prefer the pagan way.
What is wrong if women cannot be priests? They can be nuns and Catholic males cannot become nuns as well no matter what. What the males can possess the females can’t while what the female can possess the males can’t as well. Each one must recognize their gifts. The gift of priesthood was not offered by Christ to women, that’s not Vatican invention. The female priesthood is pagan invention and Canterbury invention. I prefer the Vatican than the paganized Canterbury.
If a woman wants to have male genital that’s delusional. If she insists she can have it but its artificial and fake. If a man wants a female organ its delusional. If he insists then he can cut his own away and be broken to get his wish but its artificial and fake. The priesthood of women is fake and artificial and so is the nunship of men.
Look at the Anglican and Episcopalian Churches when they accepted female priesthood the more they lost their followers. Giving in to the desires of some to the detriment of the True Faith is the road to destruction. Thanks be to God the Catholic Church is steadfast as a Rock.
O, the ingenuity of the feminine spirit is more uplifted in the Catholic Church. Give me a name of a prominent female Protestant religious leader and I will compare her to the best Catholic female leader we have. Let us see who has more prominence, more social relevance and more internationally renown and more influential. Let us compare. I will give you two samples: Mother Teresa of Calcutta [the saint of the gutter] and Mother Angelica of Alabama [the only religious leader who built a Telecommunication Empire – The EWTN – out of car garage of her convent].
Lastly, your exegesis is a little bit poor and still follows the teaching of Vatican I (1870).
Well, I know that my exegesis is poor because I am not rich and anyway I do not pretend to be an Exegete. This blog is not made for scholarly articles but for simple people. So, your criteria is out of touch with reality. You are giving me a criteria that I never claimed for my works in this Blog. What I have here are simple reflections of life and the apologetic articles I’ve been posting here are for those who are seeking basic Biblical support of the Catholic Faith. If you want something deeper then read the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA freely given in the net or read the articles on EWTN Library or in Catholic Answers. This Blog is not for the learned but for the simple. If you are not aware there is also a free Summa Theologiae in the web you can enjoy it till Kingdom come.
If my exegesis is poor yours is horrible and miserable. Imagining proof of Abortion in Mark 14,21 “Better for that man if he had never been born” that could tell us that even Jesus was open to a possible “pro-choice” position is taxing my mind. You have forgotten the fact that Jesus allowed Judas to be born. Your conclusion is hallucinatory while my position is based on concrete reality.
So, you are no longer following the Vatican I. You are a heretic after all. A Catholic must accept the documents of ALL 21 ECUMENICAL COUNCILS OF THE CHURCH. Where did you get the idea that Vatican I must not be followed, from your prophets? I follow Vatican II and Vatican I and Nicaea, Ephesus, Chalcedon, Constantinople, Florence, Lateran, etc. and I abhor your Modern Prophets. There is never any statement in Vatican II stating that Vatican I must be discarded. Once again your heretical mentors have deceived you.
The Greek language has 2 different words for Brother and Cousin, but the evangelist chooses the word “Brother”. It is clear “why”. Because Jesus had some brothers and sister and they were known at the time of Jesus.
O, another heresy here. You are denying the Perpetual Virginity of Mary. The heresy of Helvidius. He,he,he… Heresy begets heresies… As I thought you are not a real Catholic priest and you are not a real Catholic. I think you are one of the Berean Cowards, eh. Pretending to be one of ours. Like the Devil working in the shadows you preferred to work in the dark. This could be RODIMUS THE COWARD himself doubly incognito.
Concerning the word “brothers” of Jesus. Well, don’t forget the fact that the Apostles were Jews. Even though they were writing in Greek their culture and mentality were Jewish. In Hebrew and Aramaic language used by Jesus and the Apostles there were no word for cousins. Cousins were called “Brothers and Sisters”. Well, you can argue that the New Testament is not written in Hebrew and Aramaic but in Greek. Fine. But, SORRY FOR YOU because even in Greek it was explained by St. Paul that ADELPHOI [Brothers] is not exclusive of siblings but also referring to KINSMEN or RELATIVES:
“For I could wish that I myself were accursed and cut off from Christ for the sake of my brothers, my kinsmen according to the flesh. ” [Romans 9:3 English Standard Version]
Greek Original: ηὐχόμην γὰρ αὐτὸς ἐγὼ ἀνάθεμα ειναι ἀπὸ τοῦ Χριστοῦ ὑπὲρ τῶν αδελφῶν μου, τῶν συγγενῶν μου κατὰ σάρκα…
Look at the original Greek. The word used for brothers is ADELPHON and for kinsmen SUGGENON KATA SARKA. St. Paul speaks of his brothers who are not his siblings but Kinsmen — they are relatives according to the flesh.
If you will study the use of Adelphos or Adelphoi in Greek Bible you will find that it is used about 9 or 12 times with other meanings beside blood brethren.
Moreover, this is not against the profession of Faith that defines our Catholicity. I keep praying for you and your Major Superiors. May St. Jerome enlighten and open your heart!!!!
NOW, AFTER GIVING YOU ENOUGH SPACE IN THIS BLOG. I BELIEVE IT IS TIME TO REJECT ANONYMOUS MESSAGES FROM NOW ON. I TRIED TO BE OPEN AND ACCOMMODATING BUT HERETICS AND PROPONENTS OF SATANIC MURDER OF CHILDREN ARE CREEPING IN. THROUGH THE INTERCESSION OF ST. MICHAEL I LOCK THIS BLOG AGAINST MALIGNANT SPIRITS AND PERSONS PROMOTING SUCH ABOMINABLE THINGS AND EXPEL THEM FROM HERE. IN THE NAME OF JESUS THE LIFE AND THE LIGHT OF THE WORLD. AMEN.
Catholic Faith Defender 